When to Approach to be 2nd shooter & How?

[orinoco]

Hi, Long time lurker of the forums 1st time poster, I am keen to get into wedding photography, but obviously don't have the skill set for wedding photography to match my desire. I have for the past year or so been photographing aircraft, some pf my pics can be seen here

JetPhotos.Net Aviation Photos: Tony Roberts

Now I realise that this is a completely different discipline, but some of the skills will be transferable? I initially shot in TV and AV, but for the past 6 months I have shot mainly in Manual. At the end of this month I am on a course run by Brett Harkness on Wedding photography. In addition to this what should I be doing to bring my skill levels up, in order to be able to approach a Wedding Photographer to assist and how would I go about this?


Current Equipment
Canon 30d
Canon 5d
Canon 100-400L IS USM f4.5-f5.6
Canon 70-200L IS USM f2.8
Canon 17-85 EFS f4.5-f5.6


What additional equipment will I need? I realise my current list is short but as above it has been mainly use for photographing aircraft.

Any help greatly appreciated.

Tony

[DougAxford]

First off, welcome to posting. I'll try to be gentle Tony so that you'll want to post again.

The first 2 paragraphs are great - you've got some experience, you've switched to manual and you have desire. Then, you blew it - you got fixated on equipment. "Equipment does not a photographer make" or something like that.

You've got plenty of equipment to shoot 2nd or 3rd at a wedding. You need the skills.

I would call 4 or 5 top photographers in your region and tell them that you're keen on learning to become a 2nd shooter at a wedding. I said 'region' and to me that means you might want to stay away from people who might see you as a potential competitor. This is a nasty business and although some photographers are very friendly with their competition, most are not.

After the call, arrange a time to visit them and talk. Do not take any equipment or talk about equipment unless they specifically ask. For me, that's a dead give away that I'm dealing with someone who puts hardware before people. Wedding photography is people, emotions and timing. Equipment is simply a tool (unless is breaks during the wedding, then it's a useless tool).

I would recommend checking out DWF (Digital Wedding Forum) Last I heard it was $150/yr to join and I think you can get a 1 week trial for free. Although ProPhoto forum is great, DWF is specific to weddings and you'll find lots of members from the UK. There are threads specifically for photographers looking for 2nd shooters and 2nd shooters looking for mentors. I was a member but got fed up with the 'touchy feely' stuff that predominates. It also seemed to take over an hour of my time each day going through mounds of info to find one little nugget. There are lots of nuggets there, that's for sure. (sorry if I violated any rules Drew but I think this is a reasonable cause)

Anyway, find a photographer that you feel comfortable with and work with them on a few weddings, even if it's free. You probably will not be allowed to retain copyright or make any money but the goal is to learn. Then, with that skill set, move to someone who is better where you can learn more. It's no different than any other apprenticeship.

Good luck and let us know what happens,

DougA

[orinoco]

Thanks for the reply Doug and the advice, I am definitely a people person and not hardware, I thought long and hard before posting an equipment list and the only reason I posted was I have read so many previous threads where the OP has been asked about there equipment so thought I would answer it straight off.

Regards DWF I have just had a look and unfortunately part of the access criteria is that you must have a pro wedding website to gain admission which at this stage excludes me, although I can see it being valuable resource in the future.

I am planning on doing some candid street photography next week, just so I can get a feel for looking through the camera at people in different situations. I will keep you posted on my progress

Tony

[David_Buzzard]

Again, welcome to the forum.

All the jobs I've ever got in photography have come via the simple method of calling someone up and asking for a job. Also, see if they need an assistant, rather than a second shooter. If you don't have any wedding experience, you're just going to get in the way and probably not produce that much. If you're assisting the photographer, holding reflectors, setting up lights, carrying bags, etc., you'll learn a lot more and work your way up to second shooter.

David Buzzard's Technical Blog

[DougAxford]

Originally Posted by orinoco

I thought long and hard before posting an equipment list and the only reason I posted was I have read so many previous threads where the OP has been asked about there equipment so thought I would answer it straight off.

You're right on that.

David's advice is probably the best route. I agree that most pros would not want another person around who may be a hindrance. It's best to assist on a few first.

Another thing if you are assisting ... ask the photographer if they are comfortable answering your questions during the wedding. I don't like assistants bugging me during a shoot and would rather sit down after (or during breaks) and go over questions then. Each to his/her own though.

DougA

[DragonflyDM]

Calling or e-mailing is good, but treat it professionally. I mean don't just do a three line e-mail and expect a response. Give your experience, and what you are looking for. What should the photographer expect and what should you expect.

Honestly, it is all pretty Biz 101 stuff, which I don't even see that much in business. I am hiring an assistant editor and 30 out of the 100+ applications were "Hey, here is my resume, hire me."

If you are going on a photo shoot, you are a representative of that photographer-- show him you are professional.

And have a portfolio ready to show immediately. Nothing turns me off faster than "I'll see what I can get together to show you." I mean, if you wanted the job, you should have prepared to wow me immediately.

[ChrisPerry]

There is probably a PPA affiliated org locally to you. Join it. Go to the meetings, school, etc and network - find out who shoots weddings and chat them up. Then you can approach them for a job and you're much more likely to get in, or you can ask for a referral to someone looking for an assistant and eventual second shooter.

Gear choice influences what you can shoot. If you don't have an 85 1.2 you won't get the natural light shallow DOF that a lot of the top PJs do and so you can't shoot that style. Got a bracket and do the 'old school' direct flash and you can make do with a rebel and kit lens. I've seen both methods work, as in making a living.

So it helps if you know what you like, what you want to shoot, and what the photog you want to assist shoots - if he's old school and you come in all hot and heavy PJ a) you won't learn much you can use as a PJ and b) he'll not want your images. Vice versa works as well, although many PJs prefer a 'straight shooter' as their second to get the money shots and they can concentrate on the second shooting/arty end of things.

I'd agree on the show up (and BE) professional, look it, act it, etc. If you don't have your act together why would anyone hire you? It's enough work to train/instruct a new person on how I do things without adding their extra baggage too. Watch, observe, listen and learn. Then ask questions. If you come off the first wedding as the grand inquisitor I'm not likely to call you back for a second go. I'm at work to work not run a wedding seminar if you get my drift. I like it when an employee shows initiative but not all do. Assisting isn't really standing (or sitting) and watching me work