| |  | |  | Re: backdrop colour |  | 
06-03-2008, 01:33 PM
| | Lifetime Member- Moderator | | Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Pittsburgh Area
Posts: 493
Referrals: 0
| | | Re: backdrop colour I has assumed that you knew the seven notes of lighting.
There is broad (the part of the face closest to the camera), short (the part fo the face farthest from the camera), butterfly (the light is in front of the subject and the light creates a shadow straight down to the lip), Frankenstein (lighting from below), Rembrandt (a broad light that has the nose shadow following down to the tip of the edge of the lip), side (or split lighting. Done properly you should still see a catchlight in the far eye) and modified butterfly (it is a mix of butterfly and rembrandt. The shadow comes off to one side but does not extend to the edge of the lip).
Each is determined by how the light falls on the face and the shadows that fall from the nose.
The rule is focus for the eyes, light for the nose, express through the lips.
In reality, the lighting for broad, short and side lighting are the same light and just changed in its relationship with the subject as seen by the camera. You can get a quick Google on Portrait lighting and see examples. Be careful on butterfly lighting-- there are some people who do not shoot butterfly and still call it that.
Butterfly and modified butterfly are great for glamour shots. They diminish features like flat lighting, but give slight shadows to create a sense of dimension.
Broad and short light are most common in portraits, but Rembrandt is usually considered the classical portrait lighting set up.
Side lighting can be great if done right-- unfortunately, most people don't and you end up looking like an art project. Remember to let the catchlight come from into the eye on the unlit side of the face. Also, you can bounce back a little light or rim light the dark side of the head. A great effect is double side lighting where there are two main lights (think of most superhero shots with strong lights from either side).
__________________ Joshua Hudson
www.dragonflydigitalmedia.com
www.dragonflyphotography.com
www.photonomics.com |  | Re: backdrop colour |  | 
06-03-2008, 03:13 PM
| | Gold Member | | Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Odessa, Texas
Posts: 27
Referrals: 0
| | | Re: backdrop colour +1- What Dragonfly said |  | Re: backdrop colour |  | 
06-05-2008, 05:36 PM
|  | Gold Member | | Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Smithers, BC, Canada
Posts: 239
Referrals: 0
| | | Re: backdrop colour I thought I'd post a few images from the setup I tried this afternoon at the church I'm shooting at this coming sunday. I tried to incorporate some of the recommendations I received and overall I'm pretty happy with how things turned out.
If you look at the image with the histogram, you can see how dark it is. I'm not sure why it is that way. Is it because I used too low an ISO (I was at shooting at 100)? I've also provided the same image once I've adjusted the levels. But shouldn't the histogram be better than what it originally was? If my settings are correct, I wouldn't think I would have to do too much correction in Photoshop.
The main light was f/8, fill was f/5.6, and the hair/background light was f/8. I had the hair light pointing almost behind the backdrop because when I pointed it directly at the head, it was too "hot". The bench the models sat on was 5’ from the backdrop, and 9’ to where I was shooting from.
__________________ Curtis Cunningham
Photography and Graphic Design www.photistry.com |  | Re: backdrop colour |  | 
06-05-2008, 06:25 PM
| | Lifetime Member | | Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Bedfordshire UK
Posts: 227
Referrals: 0
| | | Re: backdrop colour Curtiss, that first image is too dark because there is insufficient light to make the exposure. This is not an ISO issue nor should it be with studio lights with reasonable output. What is the light output of your studio lights at their maximum power? Regardless of that issue, your lights look to be placed rather too far away from the subject, to illuminate them adequately.
The rule is that the nearer to your subject the light source is placed, the softer the light will become. At the distance you have placed your lights, they may as well be a point source for that is effectively all they will be.
If you are using studio lights, I recommend that you use an exposure meter that can accept and calculate corded and cordless flash. Triggering the flash with a flashmeter provides instant feedback as to what the level of illumination actually is.
In this situation you should set your camera to manual. Set the shutter speed to the x synch speed of the camera and adjust the exposure by reducing the light output/moving the lights nearer or further away from your subject and adjusting the aperture (as long as it provides you with the degree of sharpness that you need)
The need for anything other than the smoothest ISO (low) that you can set is rare in a studio setting because you can adjust the amount and the direction of the light. Multi- light settings are no way to experiment with studio lighting. You have to know what the effect of each light is.
Start with a single light (forget about names like main/fill/hair/kicker and the various styles of lighting) Place your light so it illuminates the model. Check the output with the flashmeter and set your camera to the aperture indicated.
Make the exposure and check it for even lighting. When metering a background, meter all of it, high and low in as many places as it takes you to cover the background. Get a sense of where the light is falling and in what amounts it is present. Be sure to meter your subject as well. what is the difference between the light on the face and the light on the feet?
Try to 'see' the pattern that the light is making. when you have exhausted the possibilities with a single light, introduce a second light... rinse and repeat the same process. Now you are ready to reduce the output of one of the lights by .5 to one f stop. This is where the excellent advice about main and fill lights, which has been provided to you, comes into play.
Without a flashmeter, you are as good as blind, in my view. If you want predictable exposures, you have to know how much light you have and where it is pointing. Don't have any concerns about moving your lights much closer to your subjects. The closer the light source, the softer it is. Do try to use reflectors as additional light sources so that you don't have an excessive number of wires trailing all over the studio because spaghetti is dangerous.
Get yourself a good book on studio lighting and read it while practising everything between its covers. Ideally, don't take on commissions that require skills which you don't yet possess.
__________________ Kind regards,
Jeff
__________________________________________
if you keep on doing what you have been doing...
you are going to keep on getting the same results. http://www.imagine-photo.co.uk/
Last edited by jeffcable : 06-05-2008 at 06:29 PM.
Reason: typos & clarifications
|  | Re: backdrop colour |  | 
06-05-2008, 10:36 PM
| | Gold Member | | Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Hialeah, Florida USA
Posts: 12
Referrals: 0
| | | Re: backdrop colour Got a flash meter?
Start by getting the MAIN flash properly exposed. use a flash meter - OR - use your histogram. You know how to read a histogram properly right? Left and right, not up and down.
Change your exposure until the histogram is nearing the right side. When it does, THEN you have a proper exposure. Do what you need to do to get it there. ISO 200 is no different than ISO 100. If you have a newish Canon or the D300 or the D3, then ISO 400 is no problem either.
After the ONE flash has the right exposure, then turn it off and use the second flash. If it is a fill, the histogram or flash meter of the second flash has to be LESS than the main flash. If the second light is also a main light, then it needs to be equal or mighty close to the readings of the first flash.
After that, THEN you can do the hairlight (if you have one). It too mus register just under the main light.
After they all are properly exposing one at a time, turn them all on together. You will probably find that the synergy of all of them together may push the histogram too far to the right. Close the F stop to adjust the overall exposure, but do NOT start changing the ratio's between the flashes.
If you get to that point, you have just gotten to the break even point. After that, creativity and technical knowledge takes the shots into the next stage.
Peter |  | Re: backdrop colour |  | 
06-06-2008, 08:38 AM
|  | Silver Member | | Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Beaver, PA
Posts: 683
Referrals: 0
| | | Re: backdrop colour Just to make your life hell... your BG is WAY too wrinkled. I assume you'll steam it before sunday. This is why I shoot this stuff at F4 -5.6 -easier than steaming  You said you're at F8 - and obviously underexposing. Try 5.6 - a stop more exposure - should fix both issues to some degree.
You hair light (i assume that's what I'm seeing) on the side of the child head...it shouldn't be there if it's a hair light - perhaps use a bogen clamp or put the stand BEHIND the BG - high and above the subject but a little behind or off to one side is the idea. there is no light on her hair in this image. As you add more people to the image you need to be able to get the hairlight on ALL of them and not create cross shadows at the same time.
You main light is too far away IMO. And a larger umbrella is strongly recommended! It needs to be in porportion to your subject - a 24" brolly is fine for a one person head shot, but for what you've been describing a 45 or 60" is more what you need. Shoot thru eats some power but is softer light - something else you'll want to help avoid shadows.
Your fill should be above and behind you, perhaps a tad to your right (like a foot max).
Last edited by ChrisPerry : 06-06-2008 at 08:42 AM.
|  | Re: backdrop colour |  | 
06-06-2008, 08:46 AM
| | Lifetime Member- Moderator | | Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Pittsburgh Area
Posts: 493
Referrals: 0
| | | Re: backdrop colour Steamed? I keep all of my backdrops bundled in a bag. Good control over the DOF (and a LOT more space between the subject and the backdrop) will even it all out. You need to get the subject at least 6 feet from the backdrop. I am sure I said this at least a half dozen times on our phone conversation.
It also looks as if you had your fill light acting as a main.
If you don't have a light meter...turn off all the lights but the main light. Put the camera's meter on spot. Get a grey card and focus on it. After each test shot look at the historgrams and see if the exposure is good. (be sure to be in manual mode on the camera)
Now do the same thing with the fill and make sure that the historgrams are falling off about one quarter into the history box. (That will be a out an f/stop to an f/stop and a half difference between the main and fill light). Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPerry Just to make your life hell... your BG is WAY too wrinkled. I assume you'll steam it before sunday. This is why I shoot this stuff at F4 -5.6 -easier than steaming  You said you're at F8 - and obviously underexposing. Try 5.6 - a stop more exposure - should fix both issues to some degree.
You hair light (i assume that's what I'm seeing) on the side of the child head...shouldn't be there if it's a hair light - perhaps use a bogen clamp or put the stand BEHIND the BG - high and above the subject but a little behind or off to one side is the idea. there is no light on her hair in this image. |
__________________ Joshua Hudson
www.dragonflydigitalmedia.com
www.dragonflyphotography.com
www.photonomics.com | | Thread Tools | Search this Thread | | | | | Display Modes | Linear Mode |
Posting Rules
| You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts HTML code is Off | | | | All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:19 AM. | | | | |