Church Restrictions Contract

[EricC]

Jeff first and foremost 'sending the ball back' could simply get you tossed from the game before it even started, period. This is a CHURCH they have NO obligation to allow you 2 inches onto the property. When I work in Temple I am expected to wear a yarmulke. I can object but the rabbi can also toss my plump rump out. Play nice or don't play at all. It is their field, their game, and their rules. Remember that the bride and groom CHOSE to have THEIR wedding there.

As far as your contract goes, I'm willing to bet that if someone were to engage in an action that got them barred from the church well in advance of the wedding that the bride would be more than able to brake the contract and find a suitable replacement.

Paul,

I had similar letters show up from time to time. The most memorable one was a CONTRACT from the reception venue requiring me to agree to THEIR schedule and provide them with a COI. I contacted the couple and they were well aware of "THE" schedule. As far as the insurance certificate, I'm insured and seeing as there is nothing to be gained by hiding it I had a COI faxed.

[PaulCosmic]

Originally Posted by ChrisPerry

While such rules are not widespread, they are not that uncommon. If you don't like the rules then don't shoot the wedding.

Chris, I think you missed the point. I did say that I don't have a problem with their rules, just the way they have gone about informing me of them, and the tone used. I will be interested to see if there are any "keep of the grass" signs or if it is just wedding parties they don't want on the grass. And as mentioned, I do have a contractual obligation to my clients, which could be infringed upon by this contract.

As much as this church is not in my main catchment area, I do get a couple of weddings per year over there. I'm not goint to shoot myself in the foot and p*** these people off and risk being banned, regardless of where the church is. There are plenty of other churches in this town, but I'd like to be able to work in all of them. At least they only threatened to ban me, a local rector tells photographers she will stop the service until they are removed from the church if they break her rules. Yet she is a lovely lady, she was the rector at my Goddaughters Baptism, I think she just hates photographers.

Some people just get off on the power trip. As for telling them its gods house not theirs, this thought did cross my mind. In England there are 2 main denominations, Aglican (often called Church of England) and Roman Catholic, this church is Aglican. Aglican churches are built on land owned by the church, not by god. So as much as they may refer to it as gods house, he don't "lawfully" own the land its build on. And knowing English law, in the absence of a Secure Tenancy Agreement, the land owner can do whatever he likes on his own land, unless he has trespassers, then they send the landowner to prison for violating the criminals civil rights.

The "photographers should not be casually dressed" clause is one I fully agree with. But who is to say what is casual and what is not? And as much as it may be their land, they have no right to tell anyone how to dress. They might refuse to marry the couple, but that could lead to them being sued as in England you have a legal right to marry in your local church.

All that asside, because I'm not going to challenge rules I pretty much agree with, apart from the time issue and the "you work for the verger" issue, I do feel I want to pass comment on the "perceived attitude" that comes across. No doubt a few so called pros have p*****d them off, but as somone else mentioned, they are taking it out on the wrong people. I might offer to rewrite it for them so they don't have the same effect on someone who might be a little more inclined to make an issue on the wedding day if the timing clause came to bare.

[PaulCosmic]

Originally Posted by EricC

I had similar letters show up from time to time. The most memorable one was a CONTRACT from the reception venue requiring me to agree to THEIR schedule and provide them with a COI. I contacted the couple and they were well aware of "THE" schedule. As far as the insurance certificate, I'm insured and seeing as there is nothing to be gained by hiding it I had a COI faxed.

Hi Eric

I have been asked quite often if I have insurance and/or PAT tested equipment, but never had anyone check or ask to see docs. For non uk members, PAT is a certificate of electrical safety. You need these if you want to plug into a venues power suply.

I think it was the "Verger is in charge of the photographer" and "photographers are answerable directly to her" bit that really got my back up. I might ask her what poses I should shoot, or get her to hold a reflector.... sorry, she is the boss, I'll hold the reflectoer while she bags the shot. Do you think she will know what aperture to use for correct depth of field? What if my sensor needs cleaning, or I need a pee; should I put my hand up?

[Gary_Evans]

Hi Paul,

Firstly, good to meet up the other day

With regards to the letter, I would suggest that the church are in no way able to dictate what you wear. Obviously your own common sense should tell you to be smart, but when you think about it, a pair of designer jeans can cost you £100 and come full of rips and patches but you can get a "smart" pair from Matalan for less than a tenner.

Then how many weddings have some guests who have a flower pinned to an old/unironed shirt? Vicar not let the guests in?

As has already been suggested, I would advise the B&G of the letter you have been sent and then let them to discuss with whoever. Its a balancing act, you want to get the photos but as you say, you may need to go back to that venue again.

This may be of interest, near to me is a large church where there would often be 4 weddings every Saturday and they suddenly introduced "rules". Within 2 years there is perhaps 3 weddings a month there now. The rules have been binned.

Also, when the vicar says "no photography during the service" watch how many of the guests shoot with their phones and not one word is said.

Power crazed hypocrites, most of them

[DougAxford]

Originally Posted by Gary_Evans

This may be of interest, near to me is a large church where there would often be 4 weddings every Saturday and they suddenly introduced "rules". Within 2 years there is perhaps 3 weddings a month there now. The rules have been binned.

Also, when the vicar says "no photography during the service" watch how many of the guests shoot with their phones and not one word is said.

I agree on both these points. My wife's best friend is a minister and she has regular problems with the church board and the rules that are in place for weddings. It actually caused her to move to another church. So, it's not necessarily the clergy who are the big villains.

50% of my weddings now are not in churches. Reason is pretty simple.

I wonder if things will change now in the Anglican church after the statement from the Archbishop in accepting sharia (sp?) law.

Doug

[David_Buzzard]

I have to say that I'm not surprised by this. I'm on pretty good terms with all the churches, venues, and civil wedding commissioners I deal with, and they tell me horror stories about photographers. Poorly dressed is a big beef (Hawaiian shirts are in no way acceptable for a wedding, no matter how expensive they are). Photographers are also working for the wedding, so there's extra onus to be properly dressed. For clergy, a big issue is shooting during the prayers, and intrusion into the ceremony by the photographer, which to them are solemn rites, not photo opportunities.

You also have to have respect for where you are. 'Keep off the ancient burial ground' sounds like a reasonable request on the face of it, and having to put it in writing in such strong terms probably tells volumes about the problems they're having at keeping photographers off it. That they have to put it in writing that photographers have to be respectful of all the church employees is also pretty telling.

Keeping your portrait sessions in the allotted time is just straight professionalism. If there's another wedding coming in behind you, then it's your job to get the photos you want and move the wedding on to the next venue in a timely manor. That applies to other venues as well. I know photographers who have been banned from shooting at restaurants and golf clubs because they constantly bring the couple in late for dinner. And before you say "they can't do that", if the wedding co-ordinator asks who the photographer's going to be, and then says "don't use him, he wrecks havoc on the dinner services", see how fast your bookings go down.

If the minister knows you, and realizes that you're not going to be intrusive, then you won't have any of these issues. At the local churches I work in, they give me free reign to shoot whenever I want, because they trust me not be disrespectful of the ceremony and church.

And remember, nobody likes an obnoxious wedding photographer.

David Buzzard's Technical Blog

[Ed Gerson]

Your contract with your client does not have the force of law over third parties or their properties.

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