Hot Shoe Flash + Umbrella for Group Portrait

Louis_Pang · #1 09-10-2005, 02:26 PM

Hi,

I am thinking of mounting Nikon SB800 flash guns on lightstand with umbrellas for indoor group photo. I'll probably get 2 units of battery packs to help the refreshing time of the SB800 as well. Has anyone done this? Dennis Reggie is doing it with Canon 550/80EX with a dual flash gun bracket + umbrella.

My question to anyone who have tried similar setup:
a. What size of umbrella should I get? I am looking at lighting 20-40 people in group portrait.
b. Is a single flash gun on an umbrella on both sides enough for a group portrait of such size?

Thanks for your help.

TonyClark · #2 09-10-2005, 10:36 PM

I seriously doubt that any hotshoe flash can sufficiently light 20-40 people. Dare I say it will take at least 3 to 4 flash heads of 600ws to begin with, depending on the enviroment and arrangement of subjects. I used to shoot one or two people with a Nikon Speedlight mounted on a light stand with an umbrella with success, but 20-40 people?

Stephen_Weldon · #3 09-11-2005, 04:51 AM

I read this yesterday and didn't comment because there are so many variables that you didn't mention.. I agree mostly with Tony though.. to make sure you cover 30-40 people adequately you'll need regular studio strobes of at least medium power. But where does "adequately" start and end..

For instance.. If I was going to make a studio quality group portrait I'd use at least four strobes into large (at least 60inch) umbrellas.. and if was a high quality portrait then I'd use additional lights for effect.

However.. when I shoot weddings it's not unusual for me to light a group that large with a single Quantum T4d into a 60inch umbrella at about 10-13 feet high and centre.. Of course this isn't what I'd call a high quality portrait.. but it fits the occasion and 30-40 person group portraits are not the focal point of a wedding album.. The same setup does very well for individual and small groups however.. but gets very thin with fall off for large groups. I've tried this with Canon 580ex flash heads which are equivilant to your SB-800's and there's just not enough power to fill even a medium size umbrella. You could probably put them on stands and go direct and get away with it.. but again it would depend on your "quality" threshold.

So.. you have expected quality.. how tight you pack the group, ambient light levels, required DOF, tripod to allow longer shutter speeds.., and no matter how you stack it I don't see SB-800's into umbrellas doing the job. I see a semi-adequate portrait with SB-800's in direct mode IF the ambient levels are good, you pack them tightly, use a tripod, and pray a lot..

Someone once gave me this piece of advise that I wish I'd followed a lot earlier than I did. "Buy a Quantum T4D." Since, I've also picked up a couple WL Vagabond units to run my strobes with for on-site portraits when I need a higher quality product.

I hope this helps.

Jeff_Tiemann · #4 09-11-2005, 11:53 AM

I have not responded to posts in a long time here, but this is my thought on the matter, buy or rent a couple of decent mono lights, crank up the power 600-800 Watts and use two very large sliver lined umbrellas placed as far back from the crowd as possible. This is a really easy setup and will give you pretty even distribution of light. You will want to shoot this at f11 or 16 to ensure that everyone's face is in focus, so choose your ISO accordingly. Also, when Denis Regie is out there pumping up some brand of flash equipment etc... don't you think there might be more to it than him just purely liking it? I think that he endorses equipment the way that Michael Jordan endorses shoes. Just my thoughts.

Cordially,

Jeff Tiemann

Louis_Pang · #5 09-11-2005, 01:30 PM

Hi,

Thank you for all the replies. I have not tried the hot shoe flash + umbrella setup. I will experiment before implementing it.

Ben_Rubinstein · #6 09-11-2005, 02:59 PM

I used to do this with two flash units firing into 32" umbrellas. At iso 400 I got f5.6 easily with groups up to 40 people. The main problems is recycle time. When I went digital and couldn't afford any varience in flash power between shots, I started using strobes.

Uzair_Kharawala · #7 09-15-2005, 05:51 PM

I use 2 SB800s on stands for group shots. I may not have shot 40 people but about 15-20 can be easily done. I don't use the umbrella... instead the diffuser dome which comes with the SB800. They are great and as I am just using them as fill, I can shoot at f8 ISO around 320-400. Use the TTL BL mode which will balance the fill light with the daylight. I also use the SD8A with them for very fast recycling time.