I simply can't find the time to respond to this thread in as much detail as I'd like, but I will say this:
I have a powerful Vista x64 workstation that is online 24/7 and which I use usually 12 to 18 hours every single day (I'm a workaholic with my own software company). I use it interactively for many, many things, and I must be able to rely on it implicitly, and my development team around the world uses it as a software development server (Subversion). It also manages my eStore, responding 24/7 to orders. It does not let me down.
I put in Vista x64 Ultimate late last year, as a full, clean, fresh install. I used my life's experience to configure it and outfit it with software as best I could so that it would be protected from getting "infected" with every piece of crap software that any site or ad script wanted to install. Additionally, I take the time to understand what I'm about to install when I do add applications, and I audit them - meaning I find out what they really HAVE installed, and remove or disable the parts I don't need.
Apple, by the way, is REALLY bad about this... Why, for example, do I need a QuickTime process always running just because occasionally I might want to view a QuickTime video, or several parts of iTunes running because I occasionally want to plug in my iPhone? Why do they insist on installing more and more software automatically? Between you and me, I believe Apple secretly writes software in this way to help make PCs look bad by comparison.
Even automatic software updates (e.g., from Adobe or Apple or other sources) can end up bringing in things and making things run I don't want.
I investigate all these and remove or disable the things I don't want/need. The information is out there if you want to look it up, and the time is well spent, paying off in the ability to continue to use the computer without slowdown and without instability.
Bottom line: I've been using this system on that initial install for over a year without even a hint of instability or slowdown. If anything it's snappier now than ever. The ONLY reboots occur at most weekly when I install Microsoft updates or the occasional app with a stupid installer.
If I find some more time I'll list all the things I do with it. It's amazingly powerful and resilient, and you wouldn't believe all the stuff I do with it.
I am not trying to be arrogant in stating that a Windows system can be stable and reliable and run as well one day as the next. This is not a theory. I am stating fact because I have accomplished this on the very system I am typing this message (now with Vista and for years before that with XP). I didn't say that it was easy nor automatic. It does require some effort and the willingness to learn, and the payoff is huge in time not wasted reinstalling or losing work or losing trains of thought.
Your first step on that road is to configure Internet Explorer to completely distrust every site on the internet, and only install/run software/scripts from sites you add to your Trusted Sites list (and do THAT only as absolutely needed). It is less important that you see all the glitz and ads that every site throws at you than to keep your computer sane. If you want to see the glitz occasionally, keep an alternate browser that's less likely to bring in infections laying around - e.g., Safari.
After that, try to answer these questions:
* Do you know what every single Add-in does in Internet Explorer?
* Do you know what every process does in Task Manager, and why it is running?
* Do you know whether you need all the services you have running?
* Do you understand all the exceptions in your firewall configuration?
Investigate programs like "Autoruns" from SysInternals. Avast is a great antivirus program, and buy it - don't try to cheap out. Microsoft's own Windows Defender is also good.
-Noel
P.S., I recall a Chinese Proverb that seems appropriate: "Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it."
Some of the things I did today with my workstation without one single glitch:
1. Did Photoshop plugin development using Visual Studio 2008; with as many as 4 instances with different solutions open at once. I did many builds, debugging, and testing.
2. Used Collabnet/Tortoise/Ankh Subversion to manage software changes, made a branch, made a beta release. Served files to remote developers via SVN.
3. Put newly released code online using FTP via WebDrive to allow me to copy the file as though the server were just another disk drive.
4. Outlook managed my eStore and responded to orders. Also used Outlook to send notices about the release and to do customer support via eMail.
5. Internet Explorer to research Windows functions, simultaneously with use of help from SoftwareKey and other companies online.
6. Edited images with every version of Photoshop I have installed and tested my plugin (that would be with Photoshop 6, CS, CS2, CS3, CS4, CS4 x64, Elements 2 through 7, plus Corel Paint Shop Pro X2 and Irfan View. Tested with a 1+ gigabyte image in CS4 x64.
7. Ran Windows 7 and Windows XP (simultaneously) in VMWare virtual machines, to do software and installer testing.
8. Watched an episode of The Simpsons via Windows Media Center; also automatically recorded Law and Order SVU using the DVR features of WMC from the HD Homerun tuner I have connected to the Ethernet. Also watched a recorded version of House using WMC remotely out in the living room on my son's XBOX 360 while eating dinner with my family.
9. Listened to Pandora Radio and Radio IO Ambient (at different times) while working.
10. Collaborated interactively with one of my remote developers online via RAdmin Server and Skype for 4 hours, in which we shared my (dual monitor) desktop and talked, as though we were sitting together working.
11. Installed new version of Ankh SVN for Visual Studio.
12. Installed Windows Updates in two Virtual Machines and the workstation itself. I hate the fact that these so often require a reboot, though the reboot itself goes quickly.
13. Reviewed my list of running processes, and startup items via the Autoruns app. Disabled some more Apple software found to be running.
14. Used the Beyond Compare application to merge changes from the trunk development into a branch.
15. Checked my investments online, checked my bank statements.
16. Exchanged IMs with several people simultaneously (that's always fun).
17. Received several faxes via the modem in the computer and the Windows Fax application.
18. Downloaded and installed an updated version of a compiler, then used it to create a new installer package for my product.
19. Typed a bunch of stuff into several forums, including this one.
20. At one point I had so many windows open during development that about 8 different sets had become grouped on the Task Bar.
21. Watched a training video via Windows Media Player.
22. Though I do get some sleep, every night at 3am this system does two backups; incremental and full system, to my external MyBook drives.
There are many more things I did today, without a care for what else was running or how many things were running, and I did more of the same and other stuff all week and through the weekend.
Vista Ultimate x64 is the most powerful and stable version of Windows to date, and if managed well it can be the long-term cornerstone of a powerful computing environment.
...if managed well it can be the long-term cornerstone of a powerful computing environment.
And therein lies the rub. It has to be managed well. Users can't simply use the computer like they most appliances. They need to babysit it.
I want my PC to serve me, not the other way around. You mention in your prior post the following:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noel_Carboni
Your first step on that road is to configure Internet Explorer to completely distrust every site on the internet, and only install/run software/scripts from sites you add to your Trusted Sites list (and do THAT only as absolutely needed). It is less important that you see all the glitz and ads that every site throws at you than to keep your computer sane. If you want to see the glitz occasionally, keep an alternate browser that's less likely to bring in infections laying around - e.g., Safari.
After that, try to answer these questions:
* Do you know what every single Add-in does in Internet Explorer?
* Do you know what every process does in Task Manager, and why it is running?
* Do you know whether you need all the services you have running?
* Do you understand all the exceptions in your firewall configuration?
Investigate programs like "Autoruns" from SysInternals. Avast is a great antivirus program, and buy it - don't try to cheap out. Microsoft's own Windows Defender is also good.
Who has the desire to do that, Noel? I have a life to lead. And this just serves to prove the Second Law of Thermodynamics yet again. Unless you carefully babysat your PC, it would no longer function properly.
I have no desire whatsoever to be forced to learn every single process in my Task Manager, for example. None. It's too boring.
This reminds me of cars when you had to set the points every few thousand miles. You constantly had to babysit your car. Nowadays, the darn things just run with minimal maintenance. Vista is so poorly designed, you have to babysit it.
So without constant intervention and babysitting by Noel, his Vista system would degrade, no?
Noel, put it this way, how many users have a) the technical ability to ferret all the technical stuff out; b) have the time (time is most people's scarcest resource); and c) have the inclination and desire?
If Microsoft Vista computers are meant for the masses (I think they are), then how many are able to solve or address the three prior questions for all your steps?
If my Blackberry required the same amount of maintenance, it would be gone in a heartbeat. I'd go back to a simpler phone or use something else.
Noel, do you know of an easy way to show all the Microsoft updates I have installed in the past two months? It's mind boggling. And what's worse, in the past when I had to speak with Microsoft about "issues" they told me that certain updates are "bad updates" and should be removed. Whatever.
Microsoft is moving Windows 7 precisely in the direction of an "operating system for the masses". In doing so they are beginning to forget that a computer operating system needs to be an operating system for a computer, and making it into more of an "entertainment system", all the while actually LOSING features that people who know computers and need a real computer operating system rely upon. Try to determine the time a file was changed down to the second, for example.
They actually started on this path with Vista, but it's been possible to outfit Vista with enough extra software (and tweaks to the config) to make it serious.
The real problem here is that a computer is a complex and powerful device, and simply ISN'T an appliance. No matter how much you want the world to be simpler, it simply will not be. So I suggest you stop trying to bend the world to your desires and start trying to work it with finesse. I'm here to tell you that's possible, and even willing to help you get there.
Quote:
Who has the desire to do that, Noel? I have a life to lead.
You clearly have the desire to have your operating system work well or you wouldn't be posting here.
I may not seem to have a life, but I surely don't spend the time I do have installing and reinstalling my operating system, and the time I spend keeping it well tuned is negligible. It just works.
Ever hear this phrase? "Work smarter, not harder."
Take the time to even do the very first thing I mentioned (setting IE to avoid running everything in sight) and it will bring you a long way toward giving you back that time.
Our positions are summed up very well in the film "Jurassic Park 2". There's a scene just after they get to the site B island where Ian Malcolm (Jeff Goldblum) is banging a satellite phone on the hood of his car, trying to get it to work. The equipment expert Eddie Carr (Richard Schiff) says "Whoa, whoa, you've gotta love it for it to work", and Ian replies "I'll love it when it works".
While Ian has a good point, Eddie is the one who gets things done. Of course, he also gets eaten saving Ian's ass. :-O
Noel, do you know of an easy way to show all the Microsoft updates I have installed in the past two months?
Sure, it's in the control panel under System and Maintenance - Windows Update. For me, I just click the Start button and choose Windows Update. Then click "View update history".
You're making out like Windows Update is a bad thing somehow... Wow. The entire Microsoft company - literally a group of tens of thousands of engineers - is doing things for you to make your system better, after you've already paid them for the software, and you think this is a bad thing somehow?!?
What if you bought a new sports car and they offered an option where for free you could take it in to the dealership for upgrades and tuning? Where they'd fix problems you might not even know you had, and make it run better, and polish the paint. They might not tell you up front that some weeks maybe they wouldn't do absolutely perfect work, but they'd fix it the next week. I'll bet you'd go for that option in a heartbeat!
But hey, if you want to go it on your own, just turn Windows Updates off. You can do that. Wash the thing yourself; change the oil; tune it up. Or drive it into the ground and complain about it.
One last point: I need to mention that I am quite familiar with the Macintosh too. I know Unix as well and yet I find myself constantly frustrated when using a Mac: It's TOO dumbed-down! People complain about Windows UAC, but the Mac has the same thing - it constantly asks for permission and the administrator password... For someone who knows what they're doing and wants to wring the last little bit of functionality out of their system that's time consuming and frustrating. And I haven't found a way to turn it off on a Mac. At least I can disable UAC!
The ABSOLUTE WORST thing about the current "opsys wars" is that Microsoft apparently respects Apple a good bit, insofar as they're making Windows ever more Mac-like. In doing so they're diluting the Windows user experience into mush. I hate that. Microsoft needs to lead, not follow. I don't WANT dumbed-down. I want a powerful system I can be adept at using.
Sigh. The world clearly does not think like I do - far more people follow your train of thought, Kevin. They want guard rails and safety latches and systems that are so bland that they can't possibly hurt themselves nor break anything. It doesn't seem to matter that they can't get nearly as much done with such a system.
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