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  #8  
Old 12-19-2005, 12:52 PM
Ian_Wood Ian_Wood is offline
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Re: The esthetic failure of most photographs

Mmm, photo books.

Anyone who wants to look at something that is primarily aimed at the esthetic/emotional side of photography, then I can strongly recommend 'The Tao of Photography' by Gross and Shapiro. Don't confuse this with the Tom Ang book with a similar title, which doesn't go into any depth on anything.

Susan Sonntag's 'On Photography' is also worth a look, although I never got on with it.

Any other suggestions?

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  #9  
Old 12-19-2005, 12:59 PM
Asher_Kelman Asher_Kelman is offline
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Re: The esthetic failure of most photographs

I value the technical discussions because it is critical to how I spend money and how I accomplish lighting and solve practical issues. I also look at websites of posters and bookmark sites with impresive compelling photographs: those that cause an eruptive emotional experience.

Strangely I have seen harsh criticism of photographers that show there photgraphs. Still, some of Michale Reichman's pictures from Bangledesh on Luminous-Landscape.com are stunning. He often compromizes on lens raz-ma-taz specs for lightweight simplicity. He has produced a lot of special artworks, in my opinion.

I know of guys that write essays on art and phototography and one in particular shares work that to me falls short!

To me it is simple. If the photgraph evokes a set of emotions to make you want to revisit it time and again and treasure it, that is a work of art. It is not more complicated than that!

It does't require lack of pixelation, vignetting normal color or great resolution, the rule of 2/3 rds or any such!

It is just whether or not your heart is set on fire, frozen or disturbed such that you are strangely drawn to it and value it to give it a special place in your world. That is art!

A girl that models for me just shared some of her self-taken pictures of herself taken with an older 1.2 MB Sony. Lighting was just from a bedside or room tungsten light. There was a lot of color noise and some pictures were blown in the highights.

However, several of those pictures took my breath away.

That says it all!

Asher [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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  #10  
Old 12-20-2005, 12:16 AM
Darrol_Hofmeister Darrol_Hofmeister is offline
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Darrol_Hofmeister 10
Re: The esthetic failure of most photographs

If you are not already aware of it, there is a place you may wish to visit/join...

www.deviantart.com

Here, I believe, you will find very little technical discussion on photography. Actually, you'll find very little actual discussion at all, but you will find a lot of fascinating photography by some very young, obscenely talented individuals from around the world. If they only knew the value of their work!

Oh, BTW there's a ton of crap there too, but the gems you find are wonderful.

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  #11  
Old 12-20-2005, 05:59 PM
Asher_Kelman Asher_Kelman is offline
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Re: The esthetic failure of most photographs

I just actually read the current "Aesthetic" offering on one of the most important sites.

I couldn't believe how trite and wrong the "truths" disclosed are.

Imagine comparing an "apple and an orange" and declaring that the orange was more difficult to exploit aesthetically because it lacked "appleness"!

How do we accept such nonsense?

Worse, how to these self-appointed aesthetic experts get to be hosted by photgraphers who's own work is so clearly better!

Asher [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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  #12  
Old 01-01-2006, 11:34 AM
EllisVener EllisVener is offline
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Re: The esthetic failure of most photographs

part of the problem is that we lack a good common language to discuss these matters and those languages which have been developed tend to be jargon laden and confusing to people new to those discussions. Additionally those of us outside of art and philosophic discussions think of those who are in those circles as elitist. the discussions of these subjects tend to be closely argued and abstruse to outsiders and have philosophic, and often political assumptions which are largely misunderstood by photographers (and nearly everyone else) because they are based in literary criticism.

here are three good books and their authors who don't fit this description (Sontag's "On Photography definitely does fit it to a "t" it is still worth reading. Later she concluded that many of the points she argued in "On Photography" were simply wrong. see her book "on the suffering of others".) :

"mirrors and windows" john swarkowski

"the nature of photographs" stephen shore

"beauty in photography: in defense of traditional values" robert adams

my belief is that we see three photographs on 3 levels: emotional aesthetic and then intellectual --almost simultaneously. It first must have an emotional appeal, th n appeal to a sense of order and then we allow ourselves the luxury of thinking about the content and formal qualities of the photograph.

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  #13  
Old 01-01-2006, 06:23 PM
Asher_Kelman Asher_Kelman is offline
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Re: The esthetic failure of most photographs

[ QUOTE ]
part of the problem is that we lack a good common language to discuss these matters and those languages which have been developed tend to be jargon laden and confusing to people new to those discussions. .......

My belief is that we see three photographs on 3 levels: emotional aesthetic and then intellectual --almost simultaneously. It first must have an emotional appeal, th n appeal to a sense of order and then we allow ourselves the luxury of thinking about the content and formal qualities of the photograph.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ellis,

You three categories are pretty correct, it seems to me.

However each is dependant on so many other factors.

1. Emotional: this can be basic, those emotions directly wired into human brains: family/beauty/sexual, danger/fear, digust

Here there is no thought. The reactions are erruptive, visceral and often constrained and repressed by our culture. "Art" uses this as the easiest route to our attention.

2. Order: Here there is a combination of complex wired circuits recognizing faces, threats, mountains, sky, rivers up and down and so forth. "Art" exploits this. Again, by ading imprints from familiar faces, myths and religion (the most common is the crucifixion) a vast array of symbology is is programmed into our brains.

3. Intellectual: what are the motivations and consequences of what is shown in this "art"? How does this react with my view of society, logic, right and wrong interests and needs.

Still, the common fundamental emotional patterns and formsyield common currencies of art, albeit with different exchange rates.

Few in an Amazon peoples would find the Mona Lisa to be any better to Epson K3 prints of a monkey! Their precious art would be collected by us, but with perhaps more of a souvenir or trophy value than from their inherent worth as great "art".

Much of our view of art is like religion: memes (i.e. culturally infectious, self-propagating ideas.)

Is the Mona Lisa wonderful? Well yes. However, without telling me, I would never know it is so very very special!

The're you are, I admited it!

Asher [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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  #14  
Old 01-01-2006, 08:28 PM
David_Pennybaker David_Pennybaker is offline
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David_Pennybaker 10
Re: The esthetic failure of most photographs

[ QUOTE ]
Is the Mona Lisa wonderful?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really.

And the beauty of that is, nobody can prove me wrong, either. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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