How do you deal with having some image processing tools in Lightroom only, and some in CS3, and the complexity this brings to a workflow? I am finding myself starting in Lightroom, exporting for CS3, and then going back to Lightroom for an image fix.
Lightroom for me is a super RAW processing application which made it feasible to use RAW files for a stock photo workflow for the first time.
However, my JPEG workflow was delightfully simple. I can usually manage to expose correctly in the field, so I'd do selects in Bridge, and then run a Batch macro to do basic contrast maximization and metadata prep, and then load each image into PS3 one by one to make any other adjustments, caption and keyword, and I was done.
Now I am doing selects in Lightroom, using develop to adjust contrast etc (no macro possible), then exporting to TIFFs and processing in CS3. However, once I get into CS3 and look at an image at 100%, I am seeing defects that were not apparent in Lightroom -- like color noise. Am I doing something wrong in Lightroom? When zoomed in, it seems I am often missing problems with image detail that I only spot once I look at the TIFF at 100% in PS.
My favourite plug-in of all time, Focus Magic, is only available for PS. So I have to go there for that. But I also love the Lightroom curves tool because it doesn't generate color shifts in the image, unlike PS. So when contrast isn't quite right in CS3, I sometimes have to go back to Lightroom, re-import the RAW image, fiddle with it again, re-export to PS CS3... you get the picture. Same for the vibrance slider -- which beats the pants off the saturation slider in PS. None of this helps me get through the backlog of images I have yet to process.
Re: Lightroom and PS -- workflow getting more complex
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Skrocki
Lightroom and Photoshop CS3 use the same raw processing engine.
Yep, that's correct.
I understand the problem. Perhaps the experience you gain having to go back into LR will make you able to see the defects while initially in LR.
Let us not forget that there is still a huge learning curve, as software changes on almost a daily basis. Some of the time we expend doing this processing is also a learning process.
From that standpoint, I'm not sure there is a "magic bullet" that will make you learn it instantaneously. I have also had to go back and reprocess some images, but I began to see the defects, and correct them before exporting.
__________________ Dennis
White Balance so easy, even our 5 year old can do it.- Melissa Strickland
Re: Lightroom and PS -- workflow getting more complex
Can you describe, in basic terms, what it is Lightroom is doing that has "made it feasible to use RAW files for a stock photo workflow for the first time"?
I'm not trying to dis Lightroom nor your choice to use it, but perhaps just laying out what it gains you will help us all to understand just what you're getting by moving to it, and how better to advise you to integrate the other tools in your workflow.
By the way, I have not personally chosen to move to Lightroom and frankly I've yet to see the need to do so. On the other hand, I don't do nearly the volume of photography that many here do.
Re: Lightroom and PS -- workflow getting more complex
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathewLodge
How do you deal with having some image processing tools in Lightroom only, and some in CS3, and the complexity this brings to a workflow? I am finding myself starting in Lightroom, exporting for CS3, and then going back to Lightroom for an image fix.
It seems to me there are three main approaches (some with variations) to what you describe that vary in the roles you delegate to Lightroom:
1 - Rely on Lightroom/Photoshop integration. Do your RAW tuning in Lightroom, then right-click on a RAW image in Lightroom, choose "Edit in Photoshop". When you save from Photoshop, the finished work winds up back in Lightroom as a separate asset beside your RAW original. This approach doesn't work very well unless you can complete all your Photoshop work in a single session.
2 - Use Lightroom ONLY as an asset manager for your RAW files. Do your RAW processing in Lightroom. Establish an appropriate Export preset for 16-bit TIFF or PSD. Export your baked work from Lightroom to some other part of the file system. Finish working these files in Photoshop, saving back to disk. In this case, your file system or Bridge or some other tool becomes your asset management strategy for your "finished work".
3 - The same as #2, but manually re-import the finished TIFF files back in Lightroom so you have the finished work sitting "next to" the RAW file. (This is what folks like Michael Reichmann seem to be doing.) There may be a way to employ a tool like Hazel to semi-automate this step—some kind of directory-watching automation—but I haven't explored this yet.
Each of these approaches has its pros and cons. In none of them is the back-and-forth movement between Lightroom and Photoshop you describe "desirable". You're probably best off using Lightroom to get the most out of your RAW image, then switch to Photoshop and rely on it until you're done, regardless of whether the file winds back up in Lightroom. There's no reason you can't apply more adjustments to a TIFF or PSD within Lightroom, but it's conceptually/organizationally murky and you may find yourself with degenerative image quality if you take it too far.
The bottom line, unfortunately, is that Lightroom in its current form doesn't really play nice with other applications. Some of the limitations are attributable to the narrow ambitions of version 1, some are more reflections on the current state of computing. I will say that I do not anticipate these scenarios changing dramatically in the next year or two.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathewLodge
However, once I get into CS3 and look at an image at 100%, I am seeing defects that were not apparent in Lightroom -- like color noise. Am I doing something wrong in Lightroom? When zoomed in, it seems I am often missing problems with image detail that I only spot once I look at the TIFF at 100% in PS.
What you describe here should be impossible, unless it's just a psychological trick. Can you create a situation where you have what should be exactly the same image open in both Lightroom and Photoshop, zoomed to 100%, and they don't look the same?
White Balance so easy, even our 5 year old can do it.- Melissa Strickland
Last edited by Martin_Doudoroff; 02-09-2008 at 04:35 PM.
Re: Lightroom and PS -- workflow getting more complex
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noel_Carboni
Can you describe, in basic terms, what it is Lightroom is doing that has "made it feasible to use RAW files for a stock photo workflow for the first time"?
-Noel
Pre Lightroom, I would have to open raw files in either Canon DPP or PS ACR before you could really see what the image was going to look like (Bridge would have a go at rendering but it was still hard to tell). So making selects was harder. Then, for each select, you'd open it and fiddle with the RAW settings for each and every file before going (completely) into PS and doing adjustments that couldn't be done in ACR/DPP. So you'd be tweaking each and every file independently (and each RAW slider one at a time) in the RAW converter, which simply takes too long.
With Lightroom, I can quickly flip through a set of images and tag with a single keypress to do selects (though Bridge CS3 can also do that, it didn't used to be as good and I got LR before CS3 came out).
I can also have a set of presets in LR on the LHS of the screen and run the mouse over them and immediately see an image preview in the top left, which makes getting 90% of the way to the right settings easier. I can cut-and-paste settings from one image to others if I know they have the same exposure as a shortcut. In summary, I spend far less time fiddling with sliders for each image.
Re: Lightroom and PS -- workflow getting more complex
Yes, I now better understand what you're doing.
Regarding seeing previews of the files, what if I told you I could:
- See thumbnails for the raw images in Explorer
- Double click a thumbnail to bring up a nearly instantaneous view of the image
- Run through multiple images by pressing the space bar
All of the above is possible via two things: A program called dpMagic to show the thumbnails in Explorer (I think there's actually one that does that available directly from Microsoft now), and Irfan View, which can be configured to extract the embedded JPEG from a raw file and display it.
Regarding converting multiple images, well, Photoshop Camera Raw can handle multiple images. Drag a whole set of raw files to Photoshop and it will display them all down the left side of the Camera Raw dialog. You can click on them and make settings, and you can select multiples and make settings. You can convert them all to files on the disk, or into Photoshop.
I know this doesn't cover all the functionality you described, but it has some advantages... For example, there's no database to corrupt. If the file's on the disk, you see the thumbnail, and if you use NTFS or Mac's best file system the file will pretty surely be and stay on the disk.
No real point here, just some rambling on my part. Thanks for helping me understand what Lightroom does in a practical sense.
LinkBack to this Thread: http://www.prophotohome.com/forum/raw-photo-processing-software-technique/75839-lightroom-ps-workflow-getting-more-complex.html
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