Pro Photo HOME
Go Back   Pro Photo HOME > Professional Photography Discussion- Full Access for Premium Members > Pro Photo Reviews and Articles

Notices

Comment
 
LinkBack Article Tools Display Modes
Canon 1D MKIII Autofocus- Interactive Review
Published by drew
06-27-2007
Day 12- Say What?



Day 12: July 21, 2007

Say What?

Referring to the 1D MKIII autofocus system, Rob Galbraith had the following things to say recently.

"...unusably poor and no match for the camera's predecessor, the EOS-1D Mark II N."

"bright, warm conditions" (trip up the autofocus system.) Italics added for clarity.


At this point there really is no debate:
I love a good debate as much as the next guy. But, there is zero truly empirical evidence in his story yet to support either of these claims. So, at this point there really is nothing new to analyze regarding his data.

An analysis of the one pseudo empirical trial:
The one example on his site approaching a controlled trial is the running test he originally posted showing results of the MKIII vs. MKII. He chose to highlight this condition as the one clearly illustrating the problems he was having with the camera. Regarding this specific test, the original entry stated " the EOS-1D Mark III under warm, bright conditions struggles to get more than a handful of frames properly focused." We were then shown a few (23 total frames and 1 test trial) of non-full resolution files for review. By the way, we were not shown the exact same trial results under cloudy, cold skies.

Almost every one of our almost 10,000 experimentally controlled frames of running test trials were shot in 90 plus degree heat. We had many under cloudy conditions that showed no significant difference in regards to the performance of the af system.

We just saw here that during the four uploaded test trials (we have many more in the can) the MKIII got an average of 93% of all frames in focus in both high heat and full sun. One of the test trials with 76 total frames got 99% of all images in very clear, perfect focus. Not sure what kind of performance he is looking for out of his camera. But, it is going to be tough to get much better than those numbers.

I'm also not sure why they chose to use only the center focus point. Our test trials using the center point show that this test condition definitely produces poorer results. As well as does using IS. He doesn't state whether IS was on or off.

The "good" results from his "running test trial" of the MKII N on his site shows 5 out of 23 out of focus. This yields an Out of Focus percentage of 21.7%. This is very consistent with the percentage we got here with the MKII (24.3%). The MKII we tested, and his own numbers, show that his MKII N performed worse than what we got using the MKIII in the same test conditions (full sun/ high heat).

Hopefully, this next batch of uploads will include some controlled trials that meet a minimal standard of experimental design. Then we might be able to get somewhere in determining what it is he is seeing that is so perturbing.

The Unconscious vs. the Scientific Method:
Given all of the above, let's step back for a moment and make one thing clear. I do tend to believe his report that there is something legitimate that is bothering him about the performance of this new af system. Rob and Mike are very experienced sports photographers. It is entirely possible that they can pick up the MKIII, shoot just a few rounds with it, then turn around and pick up a MKII and shoot a few rounds and tell a difference. It also means that if I shoot work similar to what they shoot then their opinion bears some consideration.

Malcolm Gladwell celebrates this ability in his book entitled "blink (the power of thinking without thinking)." He refers to this unconscious process as "thin slicing." We all have this ability in different arenas of life. While this ability may be useful for sensing in just a few moments whether something feels or looks right, it has one big strength, and many weaknesses. The big strength is that it can often tell us in an instant if something is right or wrong. But, when using thin slicing we are often powerless to pinpoint what it is that bothers us about the thing, or the situation, because it is largely an unconscious process. In other words, give me the new camera and I can tell you if it is fixed or not (at least to my satisfaction). But, I can tell you very little about what it is that you need to troubleshoot. Pretty difficult information for another experienced photographer to run with, much less a Canon engineer or marketing person.

As observers, we all know the power of this thin slicing ability. This is what we see going on all over the net regarding this issue right now. There are a lot of people saying, yes there is something amiss. We dismiss, or accept, their testimony based on our assessment of their overall experience and abilities. If so and so, in xyz forum says there is something wrong, then it must be true. If so and so, says there is nothing wrong, then they must be right. We know that both Rob and Mike are very respectable voices in the pro community and they both have lots of experience. They have used the MKII to the point that they don't even have to think about it. It fits in their hand like an extension of their arm, rather than a separate tool that has to be managed or manipulated. We thus, lend some credibility to their claims.

With all that said. Let's have another look at our experience of how the af system actually works. Rather than how we would like it to work.

To navigate this review use the arrows at the bottom of each page and/or the content box at the top right of this article.

Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
 
By Noel_Carboni on 06-27-2007, 09:25 AM
Re: Canon 1D MKIII Autofocus- Progressive Review

So far so good. Reinforces my theory that a problem such as Rob saw must be a manufacturing defect. Let's be realistic: It would actually be difficult to design an AF system that would be negatively affected by temperature.

The fact that Rob tested two different bodies and found virtually the same defect in both may mean it's a component problem with a particular batch, which was a different batch than the one from which the camera you tested, Drew, was made.

It's a shame there had to be a controversy over this new camera, even to the point where folks canceled orders. Even the best home run hitters in baseball don't hit home runs every time at bat, and even a whole game devoid of homers doesn't mean their capacity to hit them is diminished.

-Noel

P.S., your review's second page is a bit wide as viewed in IE7.
Last edited by Noel_Carboni; 06-27-2007 at 09:28 AM..
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #1  
By EricC on 06-27-2007, 10:01 AM
Re: Canon 1D MKIII Autofocus- Progressive Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noel_Carboni View Post
Even the best home run hitters in baseball don't hit home runs every time at bat, and even a whole game devoid of homers doesn't mean their capacity to hit them is diminished.
You HAVE got to be kidding. The difference between us and the masses is that we ARE expected to come back with 'the' shot EVERY time. I can hear it now..... Lets just go into the church's basement for your portraits, it's too hot and bright out here. MY batting average HAS to be better than .500, it darn well be better than .750 or I can trade all my gear in for a mini van and start shuttling kids off to soccer practice.

Good thing the Super Bowl is held in February and in the evening.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
By Steve_Brenner on 06-27-2007, 11:52 AM
Re: Canon 1D MKIII Autofocus- Progressive Review

Drew,
I appreciate your effort to evaluate the AF quality in the Canon 1D MkIII. As one who has taken delivery of an early model, I am most interested in how the AF is working. The football season is still a few months away, but concerns about the AF system's effectiveness are weighing on my mind right now.

I would have liked to see some comparisons of the "runner" standing still at a few distances from your camera to see how the AF works on a non-moving object. In addition, there seems to be some motion created blur which indicates that a faster shutter speed could have resulted in less overall blur.

Thanks for contributing to our understanding of the issue. My hope, of course, is that Canon is listening and will make appropriate adjustments to both currently manufactured and future Mk III bodies.

Steve Brenner
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
By Noel_Carboni on 06-27-2007, 12:55 PM
Re: Canon 1D MKIII Autofocus- Progressive Review

Quote:
You HAVE got to be kidding.
Nope. Perhaps you misunderstood me. I meant to imply that Canon has quite likely designed a great camera, and that several may have gone out the door with a particular problem that is not seen in every one. Drew keeps proving the camera he has his hands on does NOT exhibit the AF problem seen by Rob Galbraith.

The issue here is whether the Mark III has an overall DESIGN flaw or Rob's cameras have a common MANUFACTURING flaw. The sample size is WAY too small to prove it DOES have a design flaw, but just one camera shown to be working properly can go a long way toward proving it DOES NOT.

Do I want to see more tests? Sure.

-Noel
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
By drew on 06-27-2007, 01:21 PM
Re: Canon 1D MKIII Autofocus- Progressive Review

Thanks.

There is a LOT more to come.

I got in late last night from testing the camera at a local Atlanta professional soccer club with Ron Holt. I just wanted to get something up.

I am planning on doing more running tests today with additional settings and a higher ISO to yield a faster shutter throughout the run. I spent at least two hours yesterday in the heat lining up and running at the camera. While I was generally satisfied that all was working well. There was too much motion blur due to the low shutter speeds to produce consistent and definitive positive results. This was especially true of the ones where I was wearing all black to try and more closely simulate the runner on Rob's site. I must say I am not really looking forward to running at a camera over and over again today. It is almost as hot as yesterday.

I also plan to test a few other things today.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
By drew on 06-28-2007, 03:23 AM
Re: Canon 1D MKIII Autofocus- Progressive Review

Day 2 Added.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Comment

Article Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:06 AM.




Professional Photo Resources Atlanta

Photo Barn



Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.1.0