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  #22  
Old 03-31-2004, 12:05 AM
JOSHUA_ABIOLA JOSHUA_ABIOLA is offline
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Re: Professional Printing Color Space

I have Fuji PG4000, If I send Adobe 1998 RGB It comes out flat and disaturated .But from sRGB, and fuji canned profile it come close. Fuji rep also suggest to shoot sRGB and send to printer than converting color spaces that loses data. I love to shoot in Adobe 1998 RGB, than sRGB which is too saturated.But on my Roland Hi-fi jet with a RIP the colorspace doesn't matter with right media and profile. Please advice on the Fuji PG 4000. should I get a custom profile or buy a profiler , I have an offer for Hiedelburg PRINTOPEN now, If you can comment on it too.

Thanks




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  #23  
Old 03-31-2004, 02:43 AM
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Re: Professional Printing Color Space

[ QUOTE ]
I have Fuji PG4000, If I send Adobe 1998 RGB It comes out flat and disaturated .

[/ QUOTE ]

argb gamut is larger than what the fuji can output, so i'm not surprised.

[ QUOTE ]
But from sRGB, and fuji canned profile it come close.

[/ QUOTE ]

srgb gamut is closer to what the fuji can output.

[ QUOTE ]
Fuji rep also suggest to shoot sRGB and send to printer than converting color spaces that loses data. I love to shoot in Adobe 1998 RGB, than sRGB which is too saturated.But on my Roland Hi-fi jet with a RIP the colorspace doesn't matter with right media and profile. Please advice on the Fuji PG 4000. should I get a custom profile or buy a profiler , I have an offer for Hiedelburg PRINTOPEN now, If you can comment on it too.

Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

sounds like the fuji rep is telling you the quick and easy way, not the right way. i have noticed that most reps tell their clients srgb because that is closer to output than argb. you should profile your printer. shoot argb, soft proof in photoshop with your printer's profile, then after satisfied with the results, convert to the profile.

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  #24  
Old 03-31-2004, 06:56 PM
Ethan_Hansen Ethan_Hansen is offline
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Re: Professional Printing Color Space

Here ar my gripes about labs doing color management. Newer printer drivers are incorporating the ability to do color management at print time. Given an image with embedded profile, the driver converts it to the printer profile and fires the file to the printer. You'll find labs still often request sRGB, as this is the smallest standard color space. That means the print will clip the fewest colors, leading to less complaints from customers. I prefer being able to wring the best print the machine is capable of, not a lowest common denominator. Call me arrogant, but my work deserves better than that.

Next there is the issue of how the colors are converted from the image color space to the printer color space. The primary factor here is the rendering intent used. Open a typical image in Photoshop. Duplicate it. Soft proof one version to a lab printer profile using Perceptual rendering, soft proof the other using Relative Colorimetric. Chances are that one version is appreciably better than the other. Which rendering intent looks best depends on the image content. If the lab does the conversion only one rendering intent will be used. In most cases, it will be the Perceptual rendering intent.

If you are using a CMYK printer, there is a final variable of black generation. I'll typically make a series of profiles for a press or proofer that differ only in black generation. This allows using the printing strategy that shows off each image to the best extent possible.

I came back from a trip yesterday. In the course of waiting around in too many airports for too many hours I met another photographer. It wasn't hard to guess my occupation - I was the dude with a loaded Kinesis belt, a couple of big lenses over my shoulder, and far too much other junk. As we talked, the conversation came around to printing. He vehemently proclaimed none of this color management bother was necessary because the client would never know the difference. I replied that I understood why my going rates were 3-5x his.

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  #25  
Old 04-20-2004, 11:39 AM
Peter_Collie Peter_Collie is offline
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Re: Professional Printing Color Space

http://www.pixelperfect.com.au/ are calibrated to accept files in adbe RGB. I have been using them for years and the results always look just like the image on my (calibrated) monitor. The only other printing solution that has been this perfect so far has been the Epson 7600 with a custom profile.

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  #26  
Old 05-03-2004, 08:36 PM
Shad_Reed Shad_Reed is offline
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Re: Professional Printing Color Space

I have been wrestling with this issue recently and have also been told by my lab, Buckeye Color, that I should ship them sRGB files. On their website, they state:

"If we were to describe the color space that your monitor can present on screen, it would also be most-closely defined as sRGB. Your Inkjet, dye sub or Pictrography printers and our professional digital printers are.. you guessed it no greater than sRGB."

So their rational is: Why store color information that you can neither see on your monitor nor print? I don't think we disagree about what a monitor can display but what about their statement that their printers cannot print a color outside the sRGB color space. Is that just their printer? Are there printers that can print colors outside of sRGB? Additionally, Will Crockett on his site Shootsmarter.com states:

"FACT ONE: there are no printers with a color space (aka output space) that is larger (holding more volume of data) than sRGB. "

Is he just flat out wrong? If so can you provide examples? Assuming you disagree with these statements, what source do you draw your information from?

It seems as though there are a number of people who claim to be experts in this field that are not all saying the same thing and somebody is wrong. I'm just trying to figure out who I believe.

Thanks,
Shad

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  #27  
Old 05-03-2004, 09:17 PM
Ethan_Hansen Ethan_Hansen is offline
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Re: Professional Printing Color Space

-> Is he just flat out wrong?

Yes.

-> If so can you provide examples?

Yes to that one as well. Here is a plot comparing the color range of an Epson 2200 and a LightJet 5000 on glossy paper. Both excees sRGB for part of their gamuts. A decent monitor can also show colors that fall outside the confines of sRGB in the range from cyan to green to yellow to red. Why some folks insist on throwing away perfectly good colors is beyond me.

-> Assuming you disagree with these statements, what source do you draw your information from?

Among other things, from the thousands of printers we have actually measured the color range for.

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  #28  
Old 05-03-2004, 09:23 PM
JOSHUA_ABIOLA JOSHUA_ABIOLA is offline
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Re: Professional Printing Color Space

Shad, welcome to the world of different colors. We should protest against Adobe for messing with the colors.

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