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Re: which has more effect
  #22  
Old 05-07-2008, 08:17 PM
jeffcable jeffcable is offline
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Re: which has more effect

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Garrett View Post
Jeff, my Nikon D300 manual is 421 pages, all english.

I am proud to say I have memorized the first ten pages. Lets see, X x Y axis {C+D} / 24T = lots more days of studying.
421 pages! Good grief! I am truly shocked.

Ronald, I honestly do not believe that creating images has become more complicated than it was in the past. The size of the instruction manual suggests to me that either the camera is aimed at users who are unlikely to be familiar with the concepts that are known to photographers... or that the camera is far more complex to operate than is consistent with the notion of ease of use.

I grew up with Nikon cameras and I used the F2 bodies for decades. I had never felt that the mechanical act required to use the cameras had ever got in the way of creating an image. I suspect that the vast number of 'functions' found in digital camera bodies (usually buried more than one or two levels deeper than the visible menu) are going to be instrumental in intruding on the photographic visualisation of the scene by the photographer and (in my opinion) will almost certainly impinge on the ability of any given photographer to work smoothly.

edit:
I have just downloaded the manual for the D300 and I have to agree that it is one very weighty tome. From what I can discern, the camera appears to be placed squarely in that category that has come to be known as 'prosumer'. The price for the body alone tends to suggest the same thing.

On the other hand, the Q & A index (on pages iv to ix) suggests to me that Nikon are not expecting their D300 clients to have a great deal of knowledge about photography. Questions such as... "How do I print photographs", "What memory cards can I use" & "Can I view my photographs on the camera" are not the sort of questions I would expect to hear from a photographer who is contemplating using the D300.

I have scanned the manual and apart from some functionality that is specific to the D300, nothing within the manual appeared to be too difficult to follow. In the end, I felt like saying "to heck with it". I think that manual would make me want to use a simple mechanical camera again. I would then only have to think about composition and exposure like back in the bad old days before the advent of digital imaging.

I suppose I ought to say that I can now see where the act of creating a photograph has indeed become more complicated, albeit needlessly, in my view.

The upside is that I will never need to buy another Nikon camera ever again... for if that manual represents the information which Nikon believe I must know before I can make an image using a D300 camera from their prosumer range, then I just dread to think of what I would face if I had to make an image with one of their pro cameras and I am speaking as a professional photographer who earns my daily bread by using my cameras.

Jeff
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Re: which has more effect
  #23  
Old 05-07-2008, 09:53 PM
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Noel_Carboni Noel_Carboni is offline
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Re: which has more effect

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In bright conditions do you find the live view usable?
Heh, can't say I've tried it in the daytime yet. Personally I find the view through the viewfinder just fine, but then I haven't used anything but the 1.6x models since Canon started making dSLRs.

The rear LCD in general seems quite usable in the daytime. I'd heard from a 5D user that the LCD he has on his camera washes out, but that's not been my perception with the 40D.

-Noel
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Re: which has more effect
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Old 05-08-2008, 06:26 AM
Ronald Garrett Ronald Garrett is offline
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Re: which has more effect

Jeff, Thom Hogan has just come out with a new E book for the D300 that unlocks some more "secrets" . It is some 600+ pages long. It sold out before any were shipped, {printed content included}. Second edition will be out soon. See what I was talking about? It is said the manual for the D3 is almost identical.

I wonder how many pages an in depth, step by step instruction manual for Photoshop creative suite would be? I would venture to say 2000+ pages?

Kinda daunting for an old guy like me. I dive in every morning at 5:00am and come up for breath every once in awhile throughout the day.
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Re: which has more effect
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Old 05-08-2008, 04:42 PM
jeffcable jeffcable is offline
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Re: which has more effect

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noel_Carboni View Post
Heh, can't say I've tried it in the daytime yet. Personally I find the view through the viewfinder just fine, but then I haven't used anything but the 1.6x models since Canon started making dSLRs.

The rear LCD in general seems quite usable in the daytime. I'd heard from a 5D user that the LCD he has on his camera washes out, but that's not been my perception with the 40D.

-Noel

Thanks for the information, Noel.

Jeff
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Re: which has more effect
  #26  
Old 05-09-2008, 06:08 AM
jeffcable jeffcable is offline
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Re: which has more effect

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Garrett View Post
Jeff, Thom Hogan has just come out with a new E book for the D300 that unlocks some more "secrets" . It is some 600+ pages long. It sold out before any were shipped, {printed content included}. Second edition will be out soon. See what I was talking about? It is said the manual for the D3 is almost identical.
600 pages on how to use a camera that is intended for consumers? I respectfully suggest that we must have lost our way here. I am all for selling my finely honed, well-developed photographic skills but I think that producing 600 pages (on how to use a consumer-oriented camera) is likely to be overstating the case.

I don't care that Thom Hogan is making a living out of it but it is a bad joke to imply that one needs to read 600 pages on the ways to use a consumer-oriented camera, before one can get down to the important matter of creating and capturing images. I feel that this is intensely irritating; especially given that the act being discussed is essentially rather simple.


Quote:
I wonder how many pages an in depth, step by step instruction manual for Photoshop creative suite would be? I would venture to say 2000+ pages?
No matter... there are thousands of Photoshop instruction books published annually (that is some colossal page count. Most of them are little more than recipe books to direct the hapless reader on how to achieve specific effects.

My own Photoshop library consists of nothing more than a couple of books by Katrin Eismann. I find that she promotes methods born out of clearly described rationale rather than saying 'follow this to be able to produce that'.


Quote:
Kinda daunting for an old guy like me. I dive in every morning at 5:00am and come up for breath every once in awhile throughout the day.
Ronald, you appear, to me, to be a glutton for punishment (masochist?) to put yourself through that.

Jeff
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Re: which has more effect
  #27  
Old 05-09-2008, 06:43 AM
Ronald Garrett Ronald Garrett is offline
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Re: which has more effect

Not a glutton for punishment, just trying to be the best Ronald Garrett can be at his photography. In reading through all the various instruction manuals every once in awhile I come accross a little tidbit that makes me say, "well I'll be darned, I want to use that". Thom is much smarter than I at understanding an electronic device's {camera} operation. I'll continue stealing ideas from his and others writings at every opportunity. It makes me better at my imagery. If I ever feel like there is nothing new and exciting to learn, I'll prolly move on to something else, but I don't forsee that happening in my lifetime.
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