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Re: which has more effect
  #15  
Old 05-06-2008, 11:09 AM
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Noel_Carboni Noel_Carboni is online now
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Re: which has more effect

By the way, *nothing* says you have to use 100% of the technology to take great photos. I never use more than the center focus point, myself, and primarily shoot in 'P' mode. And yet miraculously I get a majority of well focused, well exposed images with the right depth of field and motion freeze.

-Noel
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Re: which has more effect
  #16  
Old 05-06-2008, 04:00 PM
jeffcable jeffcable is offline
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Re: which has more effect

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Garrett View Post
Being as a majority of my photography is mobile, I am not interested in a mechanical 4 X 5 film camera. I struggle with my longest lens attached to a 40D !


Ronald, I had made the point as a serious suggestion. Not because I think you should change your methods. It is just that a large format camera requires that you understand the process of image capture. No buttons to press by mistake, and there is not 500 custom functions. Hire a studio with the kit for a day and make a few images.

The suggestion was made in an effort to put you in touch with the process. It is likely that you would only create 5 images during an 8 hour day but you would be sure that the images were in focus, super sharp, well lit and could not be made at a wedding by one of your client's guests; using a cell phone.

Transparencies from a 4 x 5 inch monorail would knock your socks off. If high quality is what differentiates the pros from the rest, then 4x 5 inch has that in spades. The problem with the wide acceptance of digital imaging is that we all seem to be prepared to accept what is good enough rather than striving for the very best. I understand the bit about only doing enough to secure the sale but with every film camera capable of achieving similar results, the pressure was on the photographer to produce nothing but the best work possible.

For me that meant hand printing my own colour work so that I could exercise the same degree of control over the final image, as I could with my mono work. this was despite the advent and the proliferation of RA4 processors.

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My question about complexity was aimed at the fact that some operators manuals are 400 / 500 pages long now. Heck there are people that spend their entire lifetime learning how to use all the features of Photoshop, and new "secrets" are still being found!


Hmmm... My Canon 1D2 instruction manual is 178 pages long. My spies tell me that 196 pages are contained in the manual for your EOS 40D.

This is notwithstanding that fact that my own !D2 manual measures about A6 in size. 105 x 150mm and if it was an A4 (297 x 210mm) publication its page count could have been cut to a mere 45 pages. The only other manuals that I have seen that have page counts anywhere near the figure which you have suggested is a fact, are the multi-lingual versions of a technical manual.

Quote:
Some cameras now have the ability to take a picture when the subject smiles.


So would those cameras make an image if they were to focus on a laughing hyena or a grinning chimp? [/tongue in cheek]

Quote:
I feel like I need to stay on top of the newest technology because to be able to sell an image here or there, I must be able to deliver what the general public can't.


I agree with you, Ronald, about delivering what the public cannot. I don't feel that keeping up with the newest technology adds anything to my ability to create well exposed, in focus (or differential focussed) images. I can shoot on manual, meter my own exposures and have no need to rely on automation. The only custom function I have invoked is to remove the AF from the shutter release and place it on the * button.

Quote:
I guess the point about manual "techinical cameras" should make me glad for all the automation now? Noel would prolly like the old mechanical cameras as it looks like more "fiddling" was actually needed then than now.
When there was only mechanical 35mm cameras, all users at all levels were able to focus, meter for the exposure and create acceptable images. The degree of automation in current cameras leaves some of my younger colleagues floundering when something has failed and they do know know what effect each of the myriad functions has on the final image. I am not a Luddite and I have embraced digital imaging because it was difficult not to see how things were going.

To read about the ensuing problems with the technology is my cue that all is not quite as simple as the "you just press the button and print the image", sort of philosophy that appears to go along with digital imaging.

Quote:
Wow, I'm enlightened.


Glad to be of service (with apologies to Douglas Adams)

Jeff
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Re: which has more effect
  #17  
Old 05-06-2008, 06:45 PM
jeffcable jeffcable is offline
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Re: which has more effect

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noel_Carboni View Post
By the way, *nothing* says you have to use 100% of the technology to take great photos. I never use more than the center focus point, myself, and primarily shoot in 'P' mode. And yet miraculously I get a majority of well focused, well exposed images with the right depth of field and motion freeze.

-Noel
I take it that this was written with your tongue very firmly in your cheek, Noel. Unfortunately, for you, I have seen your work and even if your cameras do have a 'P' mode, I am very sure that it could not be an important part of your armoury or the technology that you are using.

Noel, your astro-work is really outstanding and it makes me want to throw away my 'scope and cameras (this next said sotto voce) or try to arrange for you to lose your 'scopes and cameras along with your memory.

Hmmm... so that is how you do it. I think the next time I find myself trying to find Alnitak with the 'scope, then hold it steady in the field of view just long enough to be able to visualise it, let alone image it, I will just set the camera to 'P' mode and it will, no doubt, do everything itself and I will get perfect images just like you do.

Jeff
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Re: which has more effect
  #18  
Old 05-07-2008, 02:07 PM
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Re: which has more effect

A crappy lens on any body will deliver a crappy image.
A good lens on an body (film days or these days) will deliver a good image.

A better lens will have better color/contrast (coatings, lens materials are better), focus faster, hold up under hard use better (steel not plastic construction, but every lens can break if dropped).

Bodies come and go, lenses stay around. Invest in lenses first, assuming a basically competent body.

The real difference is under marginal conditions - even a cheap lens can do great in the studio at F8 on a still life. Add motion, shooting wide open, shooting into the light and the weaker lens will fold up it's game and go home.
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Re: which has more effect
  #19  
Old 05-07-2008, 02:32 PM
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Re: which has more effect

Thanks, Jeff.

Okay, so I use 'P' mode in the daytime. My astro work is all generally done with 'M'.

I'm serious about liking 'P' mode for daytime shooting, though... The camera chooses aperture and shutter for a good exposure, and I use the forefinger wheel to slew the program and change the two as needed for a specific situation.

What I really like is the 40D's Live View for astro work. I just did some shots of Mercury next to the moon last night and it was simply wonderful to be able to call up a 10x view of the end of the sunlit portion of the moon and focus the 100-400 to get it razor sharp. Here's the result.

-Noel
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Last edited by Noel_Carboni : 05-07-2008 at 02:34 PM.
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Re: which has more effect
  #20  
Old 05-07-2008, 03:27 PM
Ronald Garrett Ronald Garrett is offline
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Re: which has more effect

Jeff, my Nikon D300 manual is 421 pages, all english.

I am proud to say I have memorized the first ten pages. Lets see, X x Y axis {C+D} / 24T = lots more days of studying.
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Re: which has more effect
  #21  
Old 05-07-2008, 07:06 PM
jeffcable jeffcable is offline
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Re: which has more effect

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noel_Carboni View Post
Thanks, Jeff.

Okay, so I use 'P' mode in the daytime. My astro work is all generally done with 'M'.

I'm serious about liking 'P' mode for daytime shooting, though... The camera chooses aperture and shutter for a good exposure, and I use the forefinger wheel to slew the program and change the two as needed for a specific situation.

What I really like is the 40D's Live View for astro work. I just did some shots of Mercury next to the moon last night and it was simply wonderful to be able to call up a 10x view of the end of the sunlit portion of the moon and focus the 100-400 to get it razor sharp. Here's the result.

-Noel
Hah! Now I am green with envy.

I had been wondering about the value of live view and I was on the cusp of considering adding a 1D3 to my kit. I think that I will now have to have a closer look at the 40D. I feel really constrained when I do not have a 100% FOV in the viewfinder. In bright conditions do you find the live view usable?

Jeff
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