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Canon 1D MKIII vs. Nikon D3 Sports Autofocus Showdown Concerns
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Old 05-08-2008, 01:50 PM
Richard_Coyle Richard_Coyle is offline
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Canon 1D MKIII vs. Nikon D3 Sports Autofocus Showdown Concerns

Since I'm primarily a Nikon user, I chose to post this response to Drew's comparison under the Nikon section, but I'll link to it from the Canon section as well. While it's a reasonable initiative on Drew's part to do this comparison, with obvious interest from this forum's viewers, unfortunately, from my perspective, the current comparison is not a valid one. From what I know about the two new Nikon bodies, the D3 and the D300, which share many of the same components, including AF, there are several variables that have not been taken into account. And, with the amazing complexities of both these bodies, as well as the Canon's, I'm sure there are many more than I've considered or the few I've listed as follows:

First, the full frame vs 1.3 sensor dimension differences give a different subject size and perspective to the test as run. This provides a smaller target to the AF relative to the AF sensor size for the D3 compared to the 1D MkIII. This provides less scene information, particularly contrast differences of black/colored insignia on a white T-shirt, to the AF sensor, which skews the results in favor of the Canon.

Second, with the larger full frame sensor size of the D3, there's much more extraneous scene information in the frame. Since the D3/D300 AF interacts with the Matrix Metering system, the additional background could produce some detrimental effect on the D3 AF effectiveness. The metering mode is not specified in the write-up, but as a sports shooter, I have found much better results using spot metering than matrix metering, for both exposure and AF accuracy, particularly for distant subjects. Whether or not this holds true for the new bodies, I haven't had enough experience to definitively determine.

Third, with the entirely different AF engine in the Nikon bodies, instead of using the standard "single AF sensor", many sports shooters are finding much better results with the 9 or 21 point Dynamic AF, such as a poster in this thread at FredMiranda.com:

D3 set-up Sports - FM Forums

What affect the choice of Single AF point vs 9/21 point Dynamic AF has on a runner approaching the photographer directly head-on, I don't know. But if the insignia target on the white shirt is moving side to side as the runner switches feet, with the smaller target perspective of the D3, it could make a substantial difference.

While Drew's "Showdown" does show a difference in AF focus in this particular situation, I believe it's seriously flawed. My point in all this is not to suggest the Nikon system is better than the Canon, or visa versa. My purpose is to question the validity of this very limited comparison, because of the extreme complexities of the two new systems, and the difficulty in providing for all the variables to arrive at a thorough evaluation and a sound conclusion.
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Re: Canon 1D MKIII vs. Nikon D3 Sports Autofocus Showdown Concerns
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Old 05-08-2008, 03:36 PM
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Terry Zorich Terry Zorich is offline
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Re: Canon 1D MKIII vs. Nikon D3 Sports Autofocus Showdown Concerns

Does it really matter WHY the Nikon can't match the AF performance of the Canon?

Can you point to a side-by-side test (even with all of the optimal settings/tweaks) in which the D3 outperforms, or even matches, the 1DM3 in this aspect? (I'm curious, as I'm contemplating buying a D3.)

I'm also concerned about reports of the D3's AF performance in low light...
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Re: Canon 1D MKIII vs. Nikon D3 Sports Autofocus Showdown Concerns
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Old 05-09-2008, 01:33 AM
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Re: Canon 1D MKIII vs. Nikon D3 Sports Autofocus Showdown Concerns

My experience with shooting sports with the D2x, the model that preceded the D3, in similar situations, is that it nailed almost all the shots. I have a hard time believing that the D3, or the 1D MKIII, is missing that many shots. I once saw a 1D MKII track a soccer ball that had been kicked almost straight at it.

Not to denigrate Drew or his crew, but they're not experienced sports shooters. It takes more than an a big lens and an expensive camera to shoot action.

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Re: Canon 1D MKIII vs. Nikon D3 Sports Autofocus Showdown Concerns
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Old 05-10-2008, 03:29 AM
Robert Lunak Robert Lunak is offline
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Re: Canon 1D MKIII vs. Nikon D3 Sports Autofocus Showdown Concerns

i am sure Drew wanted to keep the Showdown as fair as possible but i would also like to see a comparision where both cameraīs are set to their best AF settings and are operated similar!

From my point of view, my D3 missed only 5-10% on the last marathon i shot! and guess what, my fault!!! ;-) i used 51AF points 3D tracking, dynamic AF field (donīt know exactly what it is named in english *gg*) and lock on on short, of course AF-C! with my trustworthy 70-200 2.8 i almost never missed a shot! all of them in focus!

@Terry: rent a D3 if possible with some good glass and try it out on your own, do the same with the 1DMKIII and then you will see, i think both camīs are up the top, depending on you personal style you gonna choose the one you like best...

best regards

Robert
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Re: Canon 1D MKIII vs. Nikon D3 Sports Autofocus Showdown Concerns
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Old 05-11-2008, 01:34 PM
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Re: Canon 1D MKIII vs. Nikon D3 Sports Autofocus Showdown Concerns

I have no reason to dispute the results of Drew's test. They are what they are. However, they do not in any way reflect my experience with the D3. I shoot a LOT of sports - predominately, amateur motorsports. With my D2X, I would get some number of OOF images. Not by a lot, but just a tad soft. This would generally be about 5% or so. In my last two events I have had ZERO OOF images. Not one. this is 1200-1500 shots at each event with NO out of focus images. I usually shoot at corners where the cars' suspensions are loaded and there is some obvious lean to the cars and the speeds are in the 20-40 mph range coming directly (or close to it) at the camera. Every bit as fast as the runner.

Drew's results are what they are. So are mine.

Cliff
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Re: Canon 1D MKIII vs. Nikon D3 Sports Autofocus Showdown Concerns
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Old 05-13-2008, 12:22 PM
Richard_Coyle Richard_Coyle is offline
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Re: Canon 1D MKIII vs. Nikon D3 Sports Autofocus Showdown Concerns

Cliff
Would you be willing to share your D3 settings with us? Particularly with regard to AF (of course), but also metering, Auto ISO on/off, etc. And what were the ambient lighting and temp conditions? Thanks!
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Re: Canon 1D MKIII vs. Nikon D3 Sports Autofocus Showdown Concerns
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Old 05-13-2008, 03:33 PM
Jonathan Brachfeld Jonathan Brachfeld is offline
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Re: Canon 1D MKIII vs. Nikon D3 Sports Autofocus Showdown Concerns

I have no reason to dispute the results of Drew's test. They are what they are. However, they do not in any way reflect my experience with the D3. I shoot a LOT of sports - predominately, amateur motorsports. With my D2X, I would get some number of OOF images. Not by a lot, but just a tad soft. This would generally be about 5% or so. In my last two events I have had ZERO OOF images. Not one. this is 1200-1500 shots at each event with NO out of focus images. I usually shoot at corners where the cars' suspensions are loaded and there is some obvious lean to the cars and the speeds are in the 20-40 mph range coming directly (or close to it) at the camera. Every bit as fast as the runner.

Drew's results are what they are. So are mine.

Cliff


i can only say having shot tons of sporting events that NOBODY gets zero OOF shots....i dont care what equipment one uses!....
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