mixing monolights and speedlights

[John Cowie]

I have a mix of White Lightning strobes and hot-shoe speedlights (Canon 580EX). I'm about to do a shoot at a dance event where I'll be shooting couples against a background I have. It's quick shooting, and will run through the course of the night.

I have a darker background that I can alter by simply changing the intensity of the light hitting it. I can take it from almost black to very light, but when I'm using the White lightning's I have to manually change the lights at the cans themselves.

I have a cable from paramount cable that provides a fully functional hotshoe off camera, and includes a cable for my pocket wizards. I tried to do a practice session where I put my Canon ST-E2 on the paramount hotshoe and a PW transmitter on the included cable.

The White Lightning's fired just fine, but the 580EX's keep going into multi-strobe mode and firing repeatedly for several seconds. I can't figure out how to stop that, or whether I even can.

This phenomina occurs when I fire the camera, but DOES NOT occur when I hit the test button on the ST-E2.

I like the idea of using the ratio feature of the ST-E2 and the 580's. This way I can quickly change the background look-n-feel on the fly. However, I can find no information that says this is even possible.

Anyone have any experience with this kind of setup?

Thanks in advance!

[DougAxford]

I can only help a bit.

I often shoot with a combo of 580 and White Lightnings without any problems. I set 580 on manual with ratio, usually on the camera hotshoe or fired with a wireless slave that has trigger on the hotshoe. WLs can fire with built-in slave and if the flash won't see it, then I add the receiver on it too. Never have had a problem. I do a lot of shots similar to what you describe. The only thing I'd be concerned about is a black background going very light with more backlight. My results on that always seem to look funny with a burned out spot in centre.

I do not use auto and never ETTL or whatever that means and I don't own PWs.

[michaelnotar]

i know canon flashes arent great on a hotshoe cord, they do do weird things or usually dont fire at all.

i dont think the 580s are near bright enough and recycle time will get long or you will go through lots of AAs.


keep it simple use the WLs only, i think adjusting the head is fine, perhaps have an assistant.

and usually the background and lighting doesnt change shot to shot, it shouldnt. having changes will cause the lab to print them at a premium instead of a dance rates.

[John Cowie]

Thanks Guys, for the suggestions. In regards to overlighting the background Doug, I agree - I've seen that myself. I'm shooting a darker gray background that has texture to it, and get it pretty bright before it goes weird on me.

Michael, I'll likely end up using just WL's, but my situation is that we're herding couples through quickly so they can get back to dancing.

The activity is a non-competitive dance weekend that raises money for MS. Saturday night everyone gets dressed up in a variety of clothing. Last year some pictures didn't work cause the clothing and background didn't blend well.

So, as a new couple steps up for their picture, I was hoping to be able to quickly modify the intensity of the background to better fit their clothing.

And unfortunately, having an assistant won't happen - everyone wants to dance!

I have other backgrounds, but figured the grey is neutral, and I could gel the lights to create a warmer background. however, I have not yet found a gel color I like.

But great suggestions! Having only done this once before, if there's any other suggestions in general for being successful with this kind of scenario, I'd very much appreciate the help! The better I do, the more money we raise!!

[ChrisPerry]

How do the WLs adjust? Can't you pick two or three "presets" and mark them with tape on the WL adjustment knob and be set with dark, medium and light BGs with one quick knob turn?
Or perhaps multiple lights on the bg - one light for dark, 2 for mod, 3 for bright and just plug..unplug or swap PW channels to choose how many fire?

[John Cowie]

The WL's have a slider to set power levels, and yes I could mark some presets. What I was trying to accomplish was the ability to adjust the background from the camera.

I recognize that we're not talking a lot of time to alter intensity on the background. I'm just exploring possibilities to see if I COULD control it remotely. It would make things smoother for the couples if I can.

Your suggestion of setting the channels is not a bad idea, I'll have to play with that. The only gotcha is that I'm limited to 3 presets (I only have 2 WL's to spare for the background).

The advantage of firing 580's at the background via the ST-E2, I can alter the intensity by 1/2 stop increments, giving me more control and more options on a per couple basis.

I have a couple weeks before the event, so I have time to play and test and make a final decision. I'm going to try out the PW channels trick...

Thanks!

[DougAxford]

Jeff, if you want to control WLs from the camera, get the WL remote control panel. I've got 4 of the wired ones that use a RJ45 to the flash unit but I think there is a wireless now. The only problem with the WLs is that if you reduce power a lot (either on unit or remote) you need to dump the flash or wait awhile for it to lower by itself. I can loan you a remote if you want.

When we used to offer different backgrounds for schools, we had a painted grey background with diagonal design and a small Morris flash unit that comes with a filter kit. We simply put whatever colour filter on the unit that the customer wanted. You could do the same thing with any flash, but use Neutral Density material to vary the light transmission for the background. That way you don't need to vary the flash itself, just add or take away a filter such as a piece or plain paper.

We now use green screen instead of backgrounds which would be perfect for this event, but you'll need software such as Express Digital or Primatte or take lots of time in PS to do it.

Doug

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