These were all teenagers posting about "look at me at the dog show" posts and did not realize they were causing a problem.
Chris,
I don't mean to be provocative but, do you really think if they'd known, it would've made a difference to them??
My experience has been they could give a Rat's rear-end. They see it, they want it, and they're gonna use it.
One reason I only post photos, on line, for 30 days is because I learned people were setting up albums on my PhotoReflect site and linking to them to sell their horses.
UFB.
__________________ You can only fish for so long before ya gotta throw a stick of dynamite in the water.
White Balance so easy, even our 5 year old can do it.- Melissa Strickland
Just put a reasonable watermark that directs viewers to your website on every image, don't post hi-res images on the open internet, and get on with life. Mike.
I can't disagree too much with that. I should clarify my 'scr*w them' remark. We used to post lower res images and were told that they looked awful, so we moved to med. res. - anything above low is good enough to make a 5x7 or 8x10 for most people. So, we're just at the stage of making our watermark more bold and less translucent. That way, if they reproduce anything, at least they can't do it (easily) without having my ad in their photo. I think it's better to have decent quality stolen images in circulation with a bold mark than low quality ones. Low quality stolen prints do more to tell people that your quality sucks.
I have to agree that spending a whole lot of time on Joe Public is not productive and can potentially be counter productive if your name gets smeared. However, I also know that most of the people that reply on the internet to show & sell are kidding themselves if they think that the problem is a minor one. I expect it's 10 to 20% loss of my sales at the least. BTW, if you are watermarking in the lower corner - holy baloney Batman, you've got a whole world of thieving that you don't even know exists.
DougA
White Balance so easy, even our 5 year old can do it.- Melissa Strickland
I don't mean to be provocative but, do you really think if they'd known, it would've made a difference to them??
My experience has been they could give a Rat's rear-end. They see it, they want it, and they're gonna use it.
One reason I only post photos, on line, for 30 days is because I learned people were setting up albums on my PhotoReflect site and linking to them to sell their horses.
UFB.
Hi Will:- you're not provoking anything. You're right! The internet has become a free place. The perception is "if it is there it is free" The whole blogging/facebook/myspace thing has become a big hit. That concept is all about sharing your connections, link to your friends, tell the world all about you. So consequently the linking happens. I think a lot of it is innocent but as you say they could give a fat rats a$$ about the ramifications of using someone's work.
When we did horse shows I had an instuctor email me and tell me to put the galleries back up as he hadn't finished using my galleries in his teaching. I replied that the photos where for sale and the time had expired. His answer to me was that it didn't cost me anything to keep them up so why would I take them down.
Right now I have four links to my website from facebook. At least there are only a couple of hits each from them.
I chalk it up to a cost of doing business.
Cheers
Chris
__________________ "Never Stop Learning"
All Nikon Digital www.photos-now.ca
White Balance so easy, even our 5 year old can do it.- Melissa Strickland
We found an easy way to regulate overuse (to some extent) is to put a countdown timer on the gallery. People know that they only have 7 days to order and then the gallery is gone. We get people complaining, yes. Our reply - $25. deposit paid up front and we will repost the gallery for another 7 days. Funny thing is that we've had a dozen people do this and many have still not ordered. At least we got to keep the $25.
Lesson learned: They want to see their photos, copy them, but not buy. Next season our deposit will go to $50. That way, we've got enough that if they steal the images, I don't care.
Our galleries are for pre-school photos. If I were shooting horse shows on spec, my approach would have to be different. But then, I can't see myself shooting that way. I think I'd be just as angry as some of you.
Maybe for horse shows, you need to rethink the entire system. I had more success shooting only by ore-order deposits at sports events. How about covering the horse's head with your logo - sounds like the Godfather. At least they won't complain that they couldn't see if the horse was smiling or not.
White Balance so easy, even our 5 year old can do it.- Melissa Strickland
I gotta ask; when you republish, do you republish the entire event, or just that individual's proofs?
We have, as you suggested, tried the pre paid deposit deal at shows, and have had a nearly 100% sell rate, for those who signed up and paid the deposit. However, that has only been successful with those who know they want photos in advance. Most sales at these events are impulse buys, so if you limit yourself to shooting ONLY pre-sales, you them lose the impulse market.
__________________ You can only fish for so long before ya gotta throw a stick of dynamite in the water.
White Balance so easy, even our 5 year old can do it.- Melissa Strickland
The problem I posted was for preschools. Each student has their own unique gallery to eliminate anyone from seeing anyone else's kid.
We are just working on 2 football leagues and my answer on that one is that we get paid very well for the T&I work and while waiting for the teams, I took 900 shots of the games in progress. The action gallery will be posted for the player's parents to view and I've put a smaller copyright & name strip near the bottom of each image. Since these are lower res and since I'm not concerned about making big bucks on it, I'm not super concerned about stealing images. I'm posting it to ensure that I am in good with the league exec. so that I'll continue to get the T&I work. There is a Paypal basket so that players can order 8x10s up to 24x36 if they want. I'm not holding my breath. We booked $12K in new T&I work this year specifically because last year's person took action shots, posted them and no enough bought.
I've also got a golf tourney coming in 2 weeks. $10. per 5x7 based on the sponsor buying for all 144 people. I'll do some action shots and post those and include a DVD for free as advertising for me (goodwill). I can't see anyone buying more or at least so few that it makes it worthwhile for me to work on extra sales - it's just not there.
When we did a swim meet, we sold both sign-up plus spec whenever we weren't busy (not often). We did sell some spec, but not a lot and nothing was ever put on the web.
I'm not interested (I've turned down all requests so far) in shooting spec only. I have to ensure that there are enough orders for me to be at the event. Anything else is gravy.
In your case Will, I see what you are asking, but I have no specific answer. The best solution is to get your name out in advance of the event so people are prepared. On the swim meet, we handed out coupons to everyone who entered the pool area. It worked for us. I still think that a very strong, bold, offensive logo placed carefully on each photo that gets posted and make sure each photo is decent resolution is the way to go but I can't say that it is the best answer.
The reality is that our business is changing each time we leave the studio. I personally think the shoot & post guys are not making enough to warrant the time involved. Of course, that depends upon your locale, competition from Uncle Bob and a host of other factors. The last time I was at a hockey arena, the guy was making $25 to $100. per hour to spend the entire weekend in a really cold building. That's great money for him if he works 9-5 in an office somewhere, but it won't cover the bills for me. It seems that the $$$ are getting lower each year and my body is not getting any younger.
DougA
White Balance so easy, even our 5 year old can do it.- Melissa Strickland
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