I was offered to shoot T&I for a 500 kid hockey league next year. Only catch is they want a team photo 5 X 7 and 3.5 X 5 individual on matt frame for free for all the kids. I told him no way. He said you'll make money off additional purchases. I said not enough.
Anyway, for the last two years they have gotten this deal from other photographers the only thing is the photos have been terrible (yellow cast). Parents have complained about the quality of the photos, a number of them have come to me and asked if I would shoot their team photos (I've done some action shots for them and they have been more than pleased) I told them that is up to the league. I've had a baseball league ask me to do basically the same thing.
My work has been based on quality and they like it (action shots), the only problem is the league thinks they shouldn't have to pay anything for it.
One of the facilities I'm shooting at for hockey now is asking for a percentage along with the league for action shots. For larger events I can make this work, but for the smaller events, no way and come out of it making any money.
I'm going to stick by my guns and not do anything for free, but the photographers trying to get into the business doing these things for nothing has gotten alittle tirersome.
At one hockey tournament there was a photographer shooting another tournament offering 20 or more photos on CD for $20. Any photos they wanted! People were asking why I didn't do the same and I said they didn't know what they were doing.
I don't know if I'm asking for help or just frustrated.
Reading Rolands column on swimming and their demands kind of set me off.
My intentions are to keep offering quality rather than buckle under to unreasonalble demands. Plus competitors to this point have competed on price not quality. I feel the parents would rather spend a couple of extra bucks rather get something they hate.
Mark
White Balance so easy, even our 5 year old can do it.- Melissa Strickland
Mark-
Stick to your guns. You are in business to make money, and you know as well as I do that most parents will be happy with the team photo and the 3.5x5, and purchase nothing. There's a reason why last year's photos were crap.
We won't give a percentage on a small event. There's just no way to make money. These leagues think money's flying across the table at us. We did a peewee football league that asked for a commission to allow us to print onsite. We agreed, to see if it was worthwhile. We did all right, but not great compared to the work involved. The league got their check and then called to ask why it was so small! Never again. Our services add value to their event. The larger tournaments, we pay the same vendor fee as everyone else, but the smaller events, they either want us or they don't. If it's not going to be profitable, its not worth doing.
Rick
White Balance so easy, even our 5 year old can do it.- Melissa Strickland
Good thinking, Mark. It's gotta stop somewhere or those of us that actually try to make a living off our photography are going to have to find something else to do.
We don't shoot any kind of event like that with that kind of giveaway. We have to make a minimum dollar amount (which can vary depending upon circumstances) before the organization begins to make anything on our efforts. After that we have a sliding scale that goes up with sales (sorta like that suggested on Rolland's swimming thread). We DO provide a couple of freebie team pictures of each team to the organization that probably goes to the coaches, but never free package sets to everyone. Might as well shoot yourself in the foot for all the benefit you'll get from marketing that way. Like Rick says, we're in the business to make money (to pay our own bills, mortgages, loan payments, insurance, etc. etc.....), and if we can't make a reasonable profit, it ain't worth doing.
Neil
White Balance so easy, even our 5 year old can do it.- Melissa Strickland
I agree. Hold firm on this. It would be better to walk away than to do this job based solely on forecasted potential revenue from additional sales.
It's hard to explain the value of your work to some of these people but try this. Ask them if you could come over to where they work and have some of their product or service for free based upon the fact that you MIGHT be coming back for more at the full price later. See how they react.
White Balance so easy, even our 5 year old can do it.- Melissa Strickland
Are you simply upset because the league wants something free, or because you don't think you can make any money if you give them a free memory mate? Depending on what lab you use, a basic memory mate is going to run you about 2 bucks. Hockey T&I has the highest buy rates, and highest sales averages in the industry. If you market properly, have a strong product line, and create wise packages, you will sell 75%-80% of the parents a package at an average sale of $28. So you're looking at a $10K+ job. You recoup the $2 free memory mate in your packages, so you're only really giving away about 100 free ones, or $200.
If I were in Colorado, I'd take the job in a heartbeat, gross $10,500, and net $6500-$7000. Not bad for an afternoon's work.
Randy
White Balance so easy, even our 5 year old can do it.- Melissa Strickland
In Kentucky/Ohio/Indiana I wouldn't touch this. Hockey IS NOT the best selling sport around here. Football is. Take that job and it will cost you money in the long run if it were here. I am not sure what sports do well in Colorodo, but I wouldn't give this job a second thought.
White Balance so easy, even our 5 year old can do it.- Melissa Strickland
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