I just picked up a Nikon Coolpix 8800. Very nice camera. 2/3" 8MP, 10X opticalzoom, image stabilization, etc.
While playing with it last night I discovered much to my chagrin that the smallest aperture opening it can accomplish is f8! How am I gonna slow the shutter speed down for misty looking water shots? How am I gonna get enough depth of field when I have something in the foreground acting as a frame for the more distant scenery. The camera has some nice features that will be very handy for impromptu macro photography out in the woods, but with the aperture maxing out at f8, I worry that it will be worthless for this sort of photography, despite it's other advantages.
I suppose for some uses I can get around this by braketing the focus and combining two or more shots. Sounds like a bit of a pain, but workable. I suppose I can get a dark ND filter to solve the running water issue.
I'm wondering how much of an issue this has been for others out there. My main camera is a Canon 1Ds with a big heavy L lens on it. Sometimes I would like to go out shooting late in the day, but just can't bring myself to lug all that around with me, so I veg out on the couch instead.
Is a pro-sumer compact camera with a whimpy aperture more trouble than it's worth (for a nature photographer)?
jp
White Balance so easy, even our 5 year old can do it.- Melissa Strickland
Jeff, remember these compact cameras use very short focal lengths. This is typically obscured by the use of 35mm format "equivalent focal length" terminology when discussing such cameras. f/8 with a lens in the 7–70mm range (or so) gives you plenty of DOF. In fact you may find you lose definition at f/8 due to diffraction effects.
As for using slow shutter speeds to blur motion...I think neutral density filters are your only recourse.
-Dave-
White Balance so easy, even our 5 year old can do it.- Melissa Strickland
I was indeed thinking of it as a 35-350 lens, but in reality it is listed as f = 8.9-89mm.
I think you're right. f/8 should be just fine.
Now you've got me thinking and trying to compare f/numbers to what I'm used to on my 35mm cameras and the 1Ds (full frame digital). Since the "effective focal length" scales at a rate of approx 4 to 1, could one apply this factor to the f/number and then think in 35mm terms?
For instance(on a 35mm frame camera), at focal length = 350mm (a rather long lens) with an f/number of say f/32 I would have pretty decent depth of field despite the long lens (and as you mentioned, some softness from diffraction). Would I have approx the same DOF with this camera set to it's max zoom (called 350 but really 89) and min aperture of f/8 (times the scaling factor of 4 = "effective f/number" of f/32)? Or maybe it's 4X, which is two stops, so f/8 becomes f/16 equivalent? Don't know if I explained that well enough. Welcome to my twisted thought process.
Perhaps this doesn't work and I just have to get used to thinking in 2/3" mode. When it's zoomed all the way out it's like an 89mm lens and when it's all the way in it's like an 8mm fisheye. So at around 50mm (200mm equivalent, the long end of my 70-200 LIS on the 1Ds), the f/8 gives me maybe 30ft. to infinity, which is similar to the DOF I can get with the 70-200 at f/16 or f/22. With this camera zoomed wide, and a real focal length of maybe 8.9 to say 14mm, there's really no point in focusing the thing since the dust on the lens is probably in focus with it set to infinity.
Come to think of it, it's rather remarkable they were able to control the barrel distortion as well as they did on the wide end of this 8.9mm to 89mm lens! How'd they do that?
jp
White Balance so easy, even our 5 year old can do it.- Melissa Strickland
Jeff, all cameras will small sensors limit the aperture to avoid diffraction effects. As David mentioned, DOF (deep anyway) is not a problem, in fact I love the ability to get great DOF wide open. OTOH if I want shallow DOF I have to do it in Photoshop (example) or get out my 1D.
- DL
White Balance so easy, even our 5 year old can do it.- Melissa Strickland
Sure, my problem with my new 8400 is trying to *reduce* the depth of field. Even wide open, at normal shooting distances, everything is in focus. That 6mm lens (at the wide end) has a lot of DOF <g>.
One problem is the reduced choice of apertures at the long end -- at the 85mm focal length, the widest is f/4.9, and the smallest is f/7.7 -- only a 1-stop range.
Still, it's a nice little camera, and I love that wide angle lens.
Ken
White Balance so easy, even our 5 year old can do it.- Melissa Strickland
This is a problem experienced by nearly all compact cameras(film and digi). It is a result of using combined shutter and aperture and limits smallest aperture available. You really need a SLR to get full control.
Brian
White Balance so easy, even our 5 year old can do it.- Melissa Strickland
I have, and still use, an Ixus V2 as a "shirt pocket" alternative to my Leica D2. The Ixus is very, very good considering its vintage, and I´m not considering an upgrade at the moment.
Now to the point: about a year ago, I was induced to do some experiments with this camera´s aperture settings, and it turned out there simply was not any aperture proper in it! It ALWAYS shoots wide open! There is, to be sure, a ND filter that is used in bright light, and its use is reported by the EXIF fields as using a smaller aperture. However, experiments with a ruler shows that the DOF is indeed identical for the two "f-stops" reported by EXIF; also, one can see and hear the ND filter being swung in or out of the light path when light levels change.
From a strictly technical point-of-view, this makes a lot of sense. DOF is ample and adequate even wide open, and diffraction is kept at a minimum (if anyone recalls the old Minox cameras for 9.5 mm film, they, too, had no diaphragm and always shot wide-open). Also, of course, this solution simplifies the mechanical parts of the lens considerably.
My point in this context is: are there other small digicams where this solution is adopted? In this case, worries about aperture in such cameras is just a "red herring". I would encourage anyone using a small digicam to make some simple experiment to find out if it really has a proper diaphragm or not.
White Balance so easy, even our 5 year old can do it.- Melissa Strickland
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