Copyright issue within a family business

digitaljjs · #8 04-09-2008, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Keller

Where are the photos now? If they are digital, do you have a copy of the images?

They are all digital and I have all of the Raw files. They do not have any of the images stored at there business except for an occasional email that they may of forwarded to someone or a disc of a specific shoot or two. The way we have always done it is that when they had a customer (small & large after-market auto industry) or a publisher that needed an image for an ad or their website they were put in direct contact with me.

Mike, it is exactly as you have stated, if I am working on anything for them, I am getting paid the hourly rate that we agreed to. The contract is actually with our company, not specifically me. I am definitely not an employee for them.

I did meet with them yesterday to see what they wanted to do. In short they want to own the copyright but said that they cannot afford to buy it. They would like me to just sign them over to them so that they can do whatever they would like with them with their promise that we will continue to work together in the future. They did try to say that, "if you don't give us the copyright we'll have to get someone else to take our photos." They are trying to leverage anything that they can to get me to do what they want.

A little background on the quality of that promise is that almost every agreement that we have ever had together they have eventually broke it, even an agreement written and signed by both of us as recently as December of 2007. We have always upheld our end of the agreements and when asked if they feel we have done so, they have agreed after not being able to think of any incident where we did not. Also, they have had this issue with almost every photographer and videographer that has ever worked with them. That is, they have tried overstepping the boundaries of their usage.

What is different about those issues and this one with me is in the end it was just a few images, so they paid for extra usage or didn't use the images. With me I have basically taken all of they images that they use today. They don't want to pay to use them and it would be an extreme inconvenience to not be able to use them. It would be cheaper, I would think, to pay to use them than to replace them. (about 1000 or so images) They don't want an unlimited use license they want the copyright. They said that they don't want to be held hostage by these photos.

I don't want anything that is not mine and I do not want to try to "stick it to them", I just want to do what is right while protecting my livelihood.

Does anyone think I am being unreasonable? Go ahead and fire away if you do because, as I said, I want to do what is right.

Thanks in advance.

michaelnotar · #9 04-09-2008, 04:59 PM

simply, this is quite frustrating. given their history, im suprised you worked for them period. i think the best and simpliest is to walk away, forget the images and future work. go play with your kids or dog, you have better use of your time.

i no way would i give them © without money, and a good amount of it. its funny that the photo industry is one of those industries where the client said i dont have the money for but i want and we said ok. i want a new mercedes 500SL ($120k) but can only pay $5000!

let someone else give it away.

i think you are being quite reasonable. this is a really hard situation. they know alittle about the issues but not everything and are ignorant/demanding that they do etc.

in the future, use contracts/spell it out in the first meeting no matter who it is you are working with. it sucks learning it the hard way, but your future paperwork and futureself will be bettered by this.

michaelnotar · #10 04-09-2008, 05:08 PM

i would say you are right in terms of ©. it was not spelled out in a contract. i think this would be an easy win in court if you decide too. or atleast have an attorney write some letters to them. while you may not want to stick it to them, it is good to educate them on the issues even if hard for them (perhaps a series of firm letters from you or an attorney). for you, i would read up on the © sections on US law and write them a letter etc quoting your sources on every point.

i do something simliar on my invoices/cd delivery note...polite and firm....for example for realtors....

the images on this cd are © protected. you are permitted to use them in any media to sell your listing. if others would like to use the images, images may not be given, sold or rented to them as it is against copyright law. please have them contact me. additional use can be arranged by contacting me. i can be contacted at....

polite and firm. educate but dont agitate.

Jason_Hoss · #11 04-09-2008, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by digitaljjs

Experience is a hard teacher because it always gives the test first and the lesson later.

I like this line. Mind if i use it?

digitaljjs · #12 04-09-2008, 06:51 PM

Feel free Jason, I don't own the copyright

, actually I heard it at a business conference.

Jason_Hoss · #13 04-09-2008, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by digitaljjs

Feel free Jason, I don't own the copyright

, actually I heard it at a business conference.

Jerry Skrocki · #14 04-09-2008, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by digitaljjs

Mike, it is exactly as you have stated, if I am working on anything for them, I am getting paid the hourly rate that we agreed to. The contract is actually with our company, not specifically me. I am definitely not an employee for them.

Does anyone think I am being unreasonable? Go ahead and fire away if you do because, as I said, I want to do what is right.

Thanks in advance.

I still think you should contact a lawyer to determine your rights in this case. It is not as clear cut as you would like.

You complicate the rights issue when you state the contact is with our company, not specifically with me. This acknowledges a written contract that could be interpreted as work for hire. As an employee of that "our" company, your photos again become work for hire.

If the photos could be used again in a stock photo situation and have intrinsic value to you or your company, hire a professional to fight for your rights.

Jerry