JPG color: What's happening here?

[JerryLevin]

Just when I thought we had a reasonable handle on color...

We work in a color-managed system, and all is very good - if we stay within that system (i.e. only use apps that respect monitor profiles, etc.). Monitor (Sony Artisan) and printer (Epson 4800) and camera all get along wonderfully. Prints, with the proper profiles, are spot on.

However... When we create JPGs for clients, we've recently run into some weirdness. If we view the JPGs via PhotoMechanic, CS2, or any other app that respects the monitor profile, the JPG color and brightness are what they should be. But - if we view the same file with a non color-managed app (e.g. Windows picture and fax viewer), IE, etc., the color and brightness are noticeably off. The image appears brighter and washed out. Gold tones have now shifted a bit into yucky yellows, and so on.

We're finding that we have to add color correction layers to the files if the JPGs are to be viewed on the web, or in some other non CM viewer.

It didn't used to be that way, and I can't really suss out what's different. I'm guessing that our monitors have aged, but consistent reprofiling them hides the changes from us.

How are other people dealing with the difference between CM viewing, versus no CM viewing? Do they also simply have to have add'l corrections to the files to make them look correct in a non CM environment? And if so, how do you know what that target should be, since we're now in a non referenced situation (i.e. everyone's monitor is totally different)?

Very confused...

Thanks for your help!

[DouglasUrner]

Jerry, what color space are the images in when you're viewing then in a non color managed environment? If they are not in sRGB, odds are good that they will look bad. The only web browser that I know of that supports ICC profiles is Safari on the Mac (which is something of a gotcha, a file can look great in Safari and terrible in every other brower if it is not in sRGB, and has the correct profile). I've heard Microsoft developers claim that IE supports color management, but I think it's along the lines of "any profile you want, so long as it's sRGB."

Another gotcha is that Photoshop's Save for Web does not(in CS, don't know about CS2) convert the image to sRGB, so you can easily end up with an image that is nicely sized for the web, but with a profile like Adobe RGB or ProPhoto RGB. Compare the difference, both of these images are from the same master, the only difference is that one was converted from ProPhoto RGB to sRGB before being run through Save for Web.

This one is in ProPhoto RGB:



This one is in sRGB:



Trying to target images to a non color manged device is likely to lead to premature baldness . . . If the device is a monitor, it will probably be somewhat close to sRGB -- but it could be way off. Dealing with non color managed displays gets really hard if you're trying to support more than one of them.

If it's an option, I'd suggest providing a reference point so that viewers can tell that their monitors are off. A black-to-white step wedge can be used. Add some text telling the viewers that they should see neutral grays and a clean white.

Something like this:



HTH, Doug

[DonLashier]

Originally Posted by JerryLevin

I'm guessing that our monitors have aged, but consistent reprofiling them hides the changes from us.

This shouldn't affect anything, but as Doug points out the most likely cause is not converting to sRGB before saving. Here's another example (aRBG vs sRGB) of what happens.

- DL

[AlanRew]

Originally Posted by JerryLevin

We're finding that we have to add color correction layers to the files if the JPGs are to be viewed on the web, or in some other non CM viewer.

Make sure that you convert your files to sRGB before sending them to your clients. That's the best you can do. You can't legislate for other systems and/or applications that aren't colour managed, they are outside your control. You can maybe advise your clients that the images are colour managed, and to 'see' the correct colours 'at their best' they need to be viewed in a colour managed system. Beyond that, you can't help them further except maybe start offering or recommending CM consultancy.

Kind Regards,

Alan