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  #8  
Old 02-12-2004, 11:27 PM
AndrewVisscher AndrewVisscher is offline
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Re: Image looks great in PS, crap out

[ QUOTE ]
A friend of mine with a similar setup came up with the fix. I've pasted it below for anyone else that runs into a similar issue.

================================================== ================================
I bet I know the issue. Optical can do two things. It either corrects color via a program that loads on boot and sets the DAC on your video card to the correct values, or you install an ICM profile inside the OS assigned to the monitor and ICM profile aware applications (such as Photoshop) will pick up that and correct it only inside that application. Now what seems to be happening is that you probably are doing both. Not only is the OS doing correction, but so is Photoshop.
================================================== ================================

[/ QUOTE ]Just to reinforce what has been said...

Calibration and profiling are 2 steps working together in the process, not 2 things that are at odds with each other:

1) Calibrate the monitor. This can be optional, especially with LCDs, but in general, the calibration process modifies your monitor (you change the RGB guns for example) and the video card LUT to put your display system into some 'standard' state for the profiling step. This is what is loaded at startup.

2) Profile the monitor. Once calibrated (or not, see above), the profiler step reads the output of your monitor in response to known inputs to build the profile. In Windows, this is assigned to the Color Management tab of your monitor's properties dialog. At that point, Windows can now report the monitor's profile to any color management capable application that requests that data.

So, color managed apps use the monitor profile to correctly display images that have a profile embedded in them. Non-color managed apps can benefit from a calibrated display, but they still simply send the RGB data straight to the monitor. Note that sRGB is not exactly equal to whatever your monitor displays, so sRGB will not exactly match when compared between PS and IE.

Also note that once you profile the calibrated display, you can't throw away the calibration loader step and expect the profile to still function properly.


[ QUOTE ]
The Windows Picture/Fax viewer is as color stupid an application as they come. YOu are just seeing the raw output thrown at your screen.

[/ QUOTE ]Am I the only person who sees that images with embedded profiles are displayed correctly in "Windows Picture and Fax Viewer"? Embed AdobeRGB in a file and view that image in IE and the picture viewer... they don't look the same to me; the picture viewer displays the image the same as PS on my XP Pro system.

Speaking of which... did you save your sRGB image with the profile embedded in it?

- Andy




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  #9  
Old 02-13-2004, 06:45 PM
JonathanHeiliger JonathanHeiliger is offline
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Re: Image looks great in PS, crap out

[ QUOTE ]
Speaking of which... did you save your sRGB image with the profile embedded in it?


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I tried saving both with the profile embedded (my default action) and without.

Unfortunately, removing the monitor profile from Windows color management is the only way I've found to produce images which resemble each other in PS8 and in a color-dumb program like IE. I've looked at the final images using a browser on a variety of systems and they look good -- definitely better than the mixed output I was getting with PS8 w/ the monitor profile enabled.


-jh-

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  #10  
Old 02-13-2004, 11:15 PM
AndrewVisscher AndrewVisscher is offline
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Re: Image looks great in PS, crap out

[ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately, removing the monitor profile from Windows color management is the only way I've found to produce images which resemble each other in PS8 and in a color-dumb program like IE. I've looked at the final images using a browser on a variety of systems and they look good -- definitely better than the mixed output I was getting with PS8 w/ the monitor profile enabled.

[/ QUOTE ]
Interesting... so you've decided to pay money for a Spyder & throw away what it does for you? Have you looked to see what PS is now using as your monitor profile? The last time I tried that out of curiosity, it assumed sRGB. I don't know if it always does that, or if it is just something about my system, but I'm fairly certain sRGB doesn't really match my monitor's output... might be difficult to get a print to match the PS image.

- Andy

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  #11  
Old 02-14-2004, 02:54 PM
Ethan_Hansen Ethan_Hansen is offline
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Re: Image looks great in PS, crap out

If you want to view how an image will appear in a non-color managed application from within Photoshop, soft proof to the "Monitor RGB" setting. If there is a huge variation between the two, this suggests that your display calibration (most likely) or profile (less likely) is off. There are a bunch of posts in this forum on how to evaluate the accuracy of the calibration process.

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  #12  
Old 02-18-2004, 08:19 PM
JonathanHeiliger JonathanHeiliger is offline
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Re: Image looks great in PS, crap out

Wanted to give everyone who provided input an update on my situation..

I bought an Eye-One Display today and calibrated my display using the "Advanced" mode. Now, images in PS8 (with the monitor profile using the Eye-One ICC profile) look identical to the images when output to the web in sRGB.

I can't knock the OptiCal Spyder as I've had great results with it on my LCD. The Eye-One calibration wanted different contrast & brightness settings, along with different RGB settings than the Spyder.


-jh-

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  #13  
Old 02-21-2004, 02:41 AM
Gary_Voth Gary_Voth is offline
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Re: Image looks great in PS, crap out

[ QUOTE ]
The Windows Picture/Fax viewer is as color stupid an application as they come.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually Ethan, this is not true. The Windows Picture and Fax Viewer, as well as the Windows XP shell in general, respects ICC profiles in JPEG and TIFF files and will render the images in the correct color space. (The same thing is true for Microsoft Office 2003 incidentally.)

Here's proof:



Flag: Adobe RGB 1998, without an embedded profile.



Flag: Adobe RGB 1998 with an embedded profile.


You can clearly see the difference in saturation and color between these two versions of the same image. I also converted the image to sRGB as a control (my monitor space is very close to sRGB).

There is one caveat that if you change a profile for an image Windows will not automatically refresh its thumbnail if you have cached thumbnails enabled in Folder Options (this is the default setting). However, this is a very minor issue and easily worked around.

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  #14  
Old 02-21-2004, 11:59 AM
Ethan_Hansen Ethan_Hansen is offline
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Re: Image looks great in PS, crap out

Gary, I stand corrected. Thanks!

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