Pro Photo HOME
Go Back   Pro Photo HOME > Professional Digital Camera Discussion - Full Access for Basic Members > Canon EOS Digital SLR with 1.6X sensors

Notices

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-29-2009, 07:21 PM
Will_Mass Will_Mass is online now
Premium Lifetime Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: MD/D.C. suburbs
Posts: 722
Will_Mass
Doug Axford...Anybody else feel free to chime in

My question is for those who have owned different XXD bodies through the years.

I'm an event photographer who has been using XXD bodies since the introduction of the 10D. I currently own (or have owned) several 5, 10, 20, 40, and now one 50D. Because of our onsite workflow in my trailer we shoot large fine jpgs. And usually in AWB, b/c I've found AWB b/c I've found the camera usually get's things pretty darn close. (Please, I don't wish to have a Raw vs. jpg/ manual WB vs. AWB debate.)

I have noticed that previous XXD bodies were pretty similar to earlier models in how they rendered color. However, the color I'm getting from my one month old 50D is vastly different and much less accurate/pleasing than earlier bodies. They're just sort of muddy. Even when correcting in PS I have not been able to quantitatively nail down the difference or correct it.


TIA!

  

__________________
You can only fish for so long before ya gotta throw a stick of dynamite in the water.

White Balance so easy, even our 5 year old can do it.- Melissa Strickland

Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-29-2009, 10:46 PM
DougAxford DougAxford is offline
Premium Lifetime Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,164
DougAxford
Re: Doug Axford...Anybody else feel free to chime in

WOW, a post with my name on it ... wow, now my head is too big to reply.

I found the 50D is indeed different than the other xxD that I have had and as you and Noel have observed, they all have been pretty similar up to now. As I posted a week ago, my 50D is 3rd camera and I still prefer to take the 40's over the 50 for normal T&I or school work. The exception is family ports/weddings and the extra file size is nice for those but just overkill for the rest of our work.

Anyway, just today I turned the saturation down to 2 steps below normal and it has been 1 stop below for the past month. As per Roger Martin's and my discussion recently, my view is that Nikon is way under and the 50D is way over in saturation. Part in my observation in the last week of shooting is that I've come across a lot of very tanned people and one notch under saturation is still a bit much on them. Now the dead/white people are going to be real tough to deal with!!! Anyway, I have not had anything that looked at all muddy. I did have contrast up one notch but we've had weeks on end of overcast/rainy/crappy weather that needed a bit of snap to get the photos to norm.

Whenever I get a camera I always take a few hours to test it against previous and to get to our norm. It then gets fine tweaked on the color adjust in preferences. The 50D was tougher but is was real close in the end.

So Will, I can't say that I've had the muddy problem you are seeing, but then, almost everything I shoot is set at 5300K. I do way too many crazy uniform colors to allow an AWB - fluorescent green is my fav.
I guess I can verify everything when I get a 'normal' face and uniform (not much of those these days), a jpg out of the camera is absolutely 'dead-nuts' on the money for a straight print.

Sorry, I wish I could be more help. I will give it some more thought Will and chime in if anything clicks inside my now oversized head.

One last thought: I'd love to get together with 3 or 4 others and shoot a series of different faces with different cameras and just see what gives a better image out of the camera. I sure think that would spin a few heads.

I suspect that the 50D does a lot more 'in camera' processing of jpgs than previous models. This is just my assumption as per thoughts in a post with Andrew Rodney. FWIW if I have a bright orange uniform, the center of the face is measurably more orange than it should be. Ya, I know, it's all in the eye & the head - but the test is (like the old film days) print one kid with a grey uniform, one with a green uniform and one with bright orange, print identically, then cut out the center of their face where reflections and spill are impossible and viola!!! it's there. I'm baffled and this is something that I have not encountered in many years and the shooting has not changed, just cameras.

Anyway, the rambling thoughts of an old, tired man.

White Balance so easy, even our 5 year old can do it.- Melissa Strickland

Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-30-2009, 11:33 AM
Will_Mass Will_Mass is online now
Premium Lifetime Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: MD/D.C. suburbs
Posts: 722
Will_Mass
Re: Doug Axford...Anybody else feel free to chime in

Thanks Doug for the detailed and thoughtful reply!

Like you I always test the equipment prior to working it. However, (probably unlike you) when I see a variation I question myself rather than the equipment. I mean hey, this stuff's been pretty darn good thus far. And frequently I think, something's not better or worse, just "different" and I just need time to adjust to it. (Yanno what they say about us older guys and resistance to change....)

This morning I did some testing. First comparing different picture styles on the 50D, and was able clearly see a difference between Std, Neutral, and Faithful. I then did side by side self-portraits comparing those styles to a single frame shot with a 20D using settings that have consistently produced good images (the 40's currently in the shop with a sticky shutter button). I then opened all of the self portraits in PS. Just observing the files; the Neutral, and Faithful frames looked "better" to me. Additionally, using the eyedropper tool to read RGB values from various points on the images showed that in most cases Faithful appeared to produce values (while slightly different) the closest to the values of the 20D file. Hardly scientific, but it's what I got!

Next test is to head over to the barn, hope some kids are riding and test some more.

Any other suggestions on other tests to try welcomed!

Thanks again.
__________________
You can only fish for so long before ya gotta throw a stick of dynamite in the water.

White Balance so easy, even our 5 year old can do it.- Melissa Strickland

Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-30-2009, 12:09 PM
DougAxford DougAxford is offline
Premium Lifetime Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,164
DougAxford
Re: Doug Axford...Anybody else feel free to chime in

Will, I would much prefer to use the Standard Picture Style and then make modifications to that. Not sure why, but my experience with Fuji S3 got me turned off mfg. presets. (S3 had a slew of them)

I think if I were you, I'd pop saturation and contrast up one notch and see what results you get. I'd also try to avoid AWB but I'm not going to lecture you on that. If you're shooting equestrian, it may not be as big a deal as my type of shooting.

If you want, you can email me (or post here if you want) a smaller sample of an unaltered shot that was muddy and see if there are other opinions. You may simply have a problem camera but that's even harder to nail down unless you have a few other identical ones to compare.

White Balance so easy, even our 5 year old can do it.- Melissa Strickland

Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-30-2009, 12:29 PM
Will_Mass Will_Mass is online now
Premium Lifetime Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: MD/D.C. suburbs
Posts: 722
Will_Mass
Re: Doug Axford...Anybody else feel free to chime in

Hi Doug,

I completely agree with your comments about using picture styles. I've always used std, figuring I want to make the decisions and any necessary changes in post. I also have a call in to a buddy who has another 50. So a side by side comparison is in the works. Sounds like a good excuse to include beer!

I think I'll try our suggestion with the contrast and saturation settings this afternoon.
__________________
You can only fish for so long before ya gotta throw a stick of dynamite in the water.

White Balance so easy, even our 5 year old can do it.- Melissa Strickland

Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-01-2009, 01:08 PM
MathewLodge's Avatar
MathewLodge MathewLodge is offline
Premium Lifetime Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 399
MathewLodge
Re: Doug Axford...Anybody else feel free to chime in

Will,

When you tweak the 50D images in PS to make them pleasing, what changes are you making? Would be useful to understand what you had to tweak to make the images work.

I have the 50D and also found it very different to prior 10D and 20D.

White Balance so easy, even our 5 year old can do it.- Melissa Strickland

Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-04-2009, 10:57 AM
Will_Mass Will_Mass is online now
Premium Lifetime Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: MD/D.C. suburbs
Posts: 722
Will_Mass
Re: Doug Axford...Anybody else feel free to chime in

Hi Mathew,

That's the problem. I've found awb on the 50 to be inconsistent enough that I couldn't find a one size fits all tweak, like I have with earlier bodies.

Interestingly, Canon released a firmware update a few days ago that purportedly addresses color issues.
__________________
You can only fish for so long before ya gotta throw a stick of dynamite in the water.

White Balance so easy, even our 5 year old can do it.- Melissa Strickland

Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:48 PM.


ColorRight





Professional Photo Resources Atlanta

Photo Barn


Geo Visitors Map

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.1.0