I work entirely on the "shooter fee" (or creative fee) model. It does work very well, but you have to know how to sell it. It is a total paradigm shift for most people (especially photographers). In the long run it is an easier sell to customers when they realize the end costs.
It is also much easier on the workflow. I make 80% of my profit up front and drop 80% of my work on the back end.
As far as prints go. I give the clients a list of prosumer printers that I recommend (shutterfly, smugmug, printroom, etc).
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPerry
I too tried the 'creative fee' but and give them the files or the option for the files. It doesn't seem to work. Not even for wedding IMO - there's more profit in the album than in the shooting (based on what people pay and the time each takes).
Things may be changing - the photographer that shoots my daughter's preschool offer a CD of images, 1, 3 or all I think is how they do it, for $79, 99 and 139.
Walmarts around here just went digital and they now offer a CD of your session for $119. They want an average sale of $99 so you can see their logic.
So if you follow their thinking then if you want to average say, $35 per T&I client, offer a CD of the image and team for $40. Some will take it.
For HS seniors I want about 900 average so I could offer a disk of all the images for $1000.
Problem is that people aren't getting anything for that. Yeah they complain that an 8x10 costs $2 why are you charging $40 but they won't pay $30 for the file and then print 5 copies for the same price, so it seems anyway.
I include lo res files for seniors and it's there for the asking for other portrait work (for web, email, digital pic frames, etc).
It entirely depends upon what product you are selling.
I can burn 800 shots from a 7 hour wedding and sell the coverage with a DVD for $2,000. because it has become common with lots of articles about this way of buying in Bridal magazines. I'm happy, they're happy.
I can shoot proms, T&I, sports action and get $30.+ for a digital copy of the image. Photo time = less than 1 minute. I'm happy, they're happy.
I can't get $1,000. to shoot a typical family portrait and give them the digital file. No way - no how. I don't know anyone that does. I can't even get more than $50. for a 'creation fee'. Above that, it's no-go in our area. Then and only then, I can show them what I have created on a big screen, encourage them to think multiple images, albums, etc. Now, I can get $1,000. This may change in the future, but I can't see it in my time. I've tried working shoot & burn many times and I'm the one who gets burned.
DougA
White Balance so easy, even our 5 year old can do it.- Melissa Strickland
I get $250-500 for portrait sittings for three hours of my time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougAxford
It entirely depends upon what product you are selling.
I can burn 800 shots from a 7 hour wedding and sell the coverage with a DVD for $2,000. because it has become common with lots of articles about this way of buying in Bridal magazines. I'm happy, they're happy.
I can shoot proms, T&I, sports action and get $30.+ for a digital copy of the image. Photo time = less than 1 minute. I'm happy, they're happy.
I can't get $1,000. to shoot a typical family portrait and give them the digital file. No way - no how. I don't know anyone that does. I can't even get more than $50. for a 'creation fee'. Above that, it's no-go in our area. Then and only then, I can show them what I have created on a big screen, encourage them to think multiple images, albums, etc. Now, I can get $1,000. This may change in the future, but I can't see it in my time. I've tried working shoot & burn many times and I'm the one who gets burned.
With all due respect, if all I could get was that for a 3 hour session, I'd be bankrupt long ago. Perhaps if I was retired or had another full time job.
I guess your point is that it is possible, in your area.
White Balance so easy, even our 5 year old can do it.- Melissa Strickland
Well that is just the sitting fee. Prints and such do come extra.
However, yes, you do have to look at the economy I live in compared to yours. I am paying $3.85/gallon for gas. My renovated 3,000 sqft. colonial revival with stain glass windows, two decks, etc. was just about $100k. I just had the slate replaced on the roof for $7k (that would be $30k in any other place in the country).
Where I live people with $35k a year jobs live reasonably well. If I were to live in New England (my home region) I would need to make an extra $20k a year to survive, and I would still live in a mobile home.
In short-- it is cheap to live near Pittsburgh.
Also-- I do have a military retirement, and also work as managing editor for a national magazine. So, I can also afford to price reasonably without fear of "unforseen" expenses that come from "sole income" photography businesses [ like health care or slow periods]
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougAxford
With all due respect, if all I could get was that for a 3 hour session, I'd be bankrupt long ago. Perhaps if I was retired or had another full time job.
I guess your point is that it is possible, in your area.
I think some of how you price is based on your market segment. Someone will to spend a lot on wedding/potraiture/photography in general are those that place a higher value on it, on art and value time and creativity more than the price shoppers 'I can get that same print at walmart for $3'.
I'm unlikely to spend $100 on a bottle of wine as I know little about wine - fear of the unknown, not knowing if that bottle is worth $100 or is there a better bottle out there? What if I don't like it? I think I'd enjoy a $15 bottle just as much.
Most people are that away about photography. They're not educated on what is good or bad in a pose, lighting, etc. It's difficult to get them to spend on that $100 bottle of wine upfront. Give them a sample (low session fee, projection proofs) and then you've shown them they'll like the wine and they'll buy it.
I also goes back to are you in this for money or art? If it's art then don'tbe giving out CDs as no one will every see your art. Sorry, but I guarantee it to be true. I've sell framed wall art - anything bigger than 11x14 only comes that way. Why? More than once I've shot a family portrait or the younger sibling's senior pics and mom pulls out their last port - still wrapped in plastic under their bed. One lady pulled out one that'd been there since 1972! It never got hung, never got enjoyed. CDs are even worse in this respect.
People are busy today and don't have time to go running around to get a print framed, or a CD printed, framed, etc. Offering a complete service is the future IMO. Shoot and burn is a phase that will pass when people realize they've not no pictures of anyone. It may take 5 or 10 years but we'll look back on it and laugh I suspect.
White Balance so easy, even our 5 year old can do it.- Melissa Strickland
I totally agree. With online proofing and selling of CDs, my clients create very few prints. By contrast, my portrait clients (who don't get CDs or online proofs) end up buying and printing their images.
However, I am an artist and I still don't care if they make prints. My joy comes from creating the image-- not in the concerns of what my clients does with it.
IF I was a sculpture, and I made a great statue, which was sold to a client on commission, it wouldn't bother me a bit if he smashed it to bits after the $$ exchanged hands. I know what I created. If I wanted to control what happened to it, I would have kept it myself.
A photographer should treat his work like a Buddhist monk treats a mandala created out of sand. The joy should be in the creation and the experiece for the day it is here and then swept away forever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPerry
I think some of how you price is based on your market segment. Someone will to spend a lot on wedding/potraiture/photography in general are those that place a higher value on it, on art and value time and creativity more than the price shoppers 'I can get that same print at walmart for $3'.
I'm unlikely to spend $100 on a bottle of wine as I know little about wine - fear of the unknown, not knowing if that bottle is worth $100 or is there a better bottle out there? What if I don't like it? I think I'd enjoy a $15 bottle just as much.
Most people are that away about photography. They're not educated on what is good or bad in a pose, lighting, etc. It's difficult to get them to spend on that $100 bottle of wine upfront. Give them a sample (low session fee, projection proofs) and then you've shown them they'll like the wine and they'll buy it.
I also goes back to are you in this for money or art? If it's art then don'tbe giving out CDs as no one will every see your art. Sorry, but I guarantee it to be true. I've sell framed wall art - anything bigger than 11x14 only comes that way. Why? More than once I've shot a family portrait or the younger sibling's senior pics and mom pulls out their last port - still wrapped in plastic under their bed. One lady pulled out one that'd been there since 1972! It never got hung, never got enjoyed. CDs are even worse in this respect.
People are busy today and don't have time to go running around to get a print framed, or a CD printed, framed, etc. Offering a complete service is the future IMO. Shoot and burn is a phase that will pass when people realize they've not no pictures of anyone. It may take 5 or 10 years but we'll look back on it and laugh I suspect.
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